future ideas for class specific loadouts

Community,

A recent thread on additional sniper weapons sparked an idea for future class specific loadouts. NWI has been great about updating and improving their game and I'm sure they would be game to try some of these if us players really wanted it. The idea is that these would cost extra supply points or be built in features for the class. I would love it if there was a mechanism like in Day of Infamy to earn more points per round by taking or holding objectives, or getting points for kills. Some ideas of how it can work:

Commander class

  • Ability to make calls or coordinate squad movement by marking the map or marking movement locations with the binos (no supply point cost)
  • For security, call laser guided munitions, with observer pointing laser
  • For insurgent, call bomber drone that can be guided by observer and explodes upon signal or after 45 seconds

Observer

  • Radio acts as default body armor, can stop .762
  • Use laser to guide munitions/drone
  • Tripwire claymore or IR explosive

Rifleman

  • Different ammo type options
  • Impact grenade

Breacher

  • 1x use of room breaching robot with mini explosive
  • Cheaper body armor
  • Free gas mask for security

Gunner

  • Add a long barrel for increased bullet speed, extra penetration

Specialist

  • long barrel option
  • claymore/tripwire option

Marksman

  • Variable zoom scope option
  • Cheaper scopes
  • Claymore/IR explosive option
  • Pistol 1x scope option

I can do without the claymores. I don't feel they are needed and would build on the advantage the defense already has.

@MLB7, good point. Maybe it's an offense only weapon? What about IR explosive?

@aslan14 said in future ideas for class specific loadouts:

@MLB7, good point. Maybe it's an offense only weapon? What about IR explosive?

Honestly, I don't know what IR explosive is. Is it it a detection method for explosives? Even if you let offense use claymore your own team will come in after new wave and die on your claymore. Same would go for defense I guess.

I would say I am not in favor of variable x scopes either. That would be really strong in this game. I'm to the point now where I would like to see all 4x and better scopes removed for everyone except sniper and gunner. Four people only. Having most of a team camping with a 4x really hurts the gameplay in my opinion.

last edited by MLB7

@MLB7,

Ok, good point on your own team blowing themselves up on a claymore.

What about an impact frag, similar to the one used in DOI by the British faction? It would have less of a blast radius than a normal frag, but could be really useful in CQB.

I'm just thinking of ways to add more tactical fun over time. Regarding the variable scope, it would be a Marksman only option costing extra supply points, allowing Snipers who don't feel comfortable with a pistol some CQB ability. Regarding the 4x - I can see it being restricted to Officer, Specialist, Gunner, and Marksman classes, which all have a valid use for it. Maybe make the jump from 2x to 4x more expensive supply wise for any non-marksman role?

@aslan14 I guess an impact grenade would be cool. It would need to cost an extra point over a normal grenade I guess?

Variable scopes for a sniper would make that class superior to all others in every way. Nobody would want to play anything else. I feel the only option is pistols. I've noticed a lot snipers don't pull the pistol when they push and I don't understand it. When I was playing gunner I would push into objective with pistol and then set up with m249/pkm once in position. It's just a matter of trying with the pistol and you will be surprised how often you get that kill you need.

  • I wouldnt go for claymores or just add it to one class (and 1 piece of claymore only possibly not even killing heavy armored enemies).
  • Also remote drones/robots are big no for me .... a least for other use than reconing.
  • Having radio as back plate is nice idea .. would it make observer unable to call support when hit (till refill) ?
  • Laser guiding could be nice too .. I would make laser sligtly visible when looking directly (or from very small angle) into it .. to make it more high risk high reward tool
  • Not sure why different ammo types were cut out .. I guess usually AR already uses AP as default so they wanted to keep it simple ?
  • For Gunner I would like to see Quick barrel change as option ... would require barrel heating implementation (cyclic rate of fire is somewhere around 650RMP i think but sustained is only 50 RMP)
  • As far as variable scopes goes ... I dont use anyting more than 1x or perhaps 2x on bolt actions .. but I woulnd implement too universal scope like 2x-8x .. if variable than not something that would allow to use sniper rifle as CQB weapon just two longer options and with short animation (or delay) between switching the magnification to prevent quick in-out zooming ..
last edited by N4thani3l

Good suggestions all around. I'm curious to hear what the developers are thinking along these lines? I know you can't make promises, but would be cool to know what you are weighing.

Another option to consider are class-specific abilities not related to unique loadouts. How this could work:

Commander - already has the ability to make calls
Observer - As mentioned above, a radio would act as extra armor, like in DOI
Breacher - Runs faster by default
Gunner - Can carry a heavier loadout by default
Sniper - Can hold breath/focus longer by default
Demolitions - ideas?
Rifleman - ideas?

@aslan14 said in future ideas for class specific loadouts:

Good suggestions all around. I'm curious to hear what the developers are thinking along these lines? I know you can't make promises, but would be cool to know what you are weighing.

Another option to consider are class-specific abilities not related to unique loadouts. How this could work:

Commander - already has the ability to make calls
Observer - As mentioned above, a radio would act as extra armor, like in DOI
Breacher - Runs faster by default
Gunner - Can carry a heavier loadout by default
Sniper - Can hold breath/focus longer by default
Demolitions - ideas?
Rifleman - ideas?

Demolition needs a Duke Nukem voice wheel if we are being serious right now. Ha!

Rifleman could have the ability to pick up the radio from dead observer.

@mlb7 that is nice idea .. picking up radio .. I would limit it to Specialist or some more restricted class (player count wise) so there is not as many oportunities to 'refresh' observer role ...

@n4thani3l they could restrict the times the radio will drop. Rifleman doesnt really have anything special about it and this could add something to the class.

I like the idea that a specialist can pickup a radio.

Since we're spamming our imagination, what if a rifleman had a single deployable and destroyable barrier that could provide cover and stay up for say, 10-15 bullets? This could open up a plethora of different tactical options.

Still can't think of anything for the Demo class, though I would like the option of choosing between 4 40mm grenades as opposed to 2 + 2 RPG/MAWS

Really good ideas, would love to see hollow points and armor piercing, shotguns have 3 ammo types, other guns need love too

My ideas...

*Observer: When with commander, can capture objectives faster. (Must be with commander to get the objective capture buff instead of lonewolfing like they do now.)

*Breacher: Can do a baseball slide. (Like in 2014 insurgency before it was patched to the knees)

I don't think we should add anti-infantry traps. That kind of feature creep will lead to a detector class. (Pointman who sees traps in bright red. ) I don't really want some of Rising Storm 2's features in this game. Maybe the traps could only work if the user is in the vicinity and they'll disarm themselves 10 seconds after you've been killed, but I think it's best to just not implement them altogether.

I would like to see riflemen get a point off all rifles or maybe all rifles above 3 points.

Demo would be nice if they just started with the full ammo for rockets etc. But perhaps they could get the choice of at additional cost a 203 bandoleer meaning they could carry more. (thinking for coop mostly)

Honestly though I would like to see (again for coop) armour actually working. Rather than me wearing heavy armour and getting one shot by a strafing bot with a pistol 100m away.

Also, Commanders should be able to call in arty and support on the map. Not just with LOS. Maybe this could be balanced with them calling grid squares taking the message longer to relay.

@aslan14 said in future ideas for class specific loadouts:

Community,

A recent thread on additional sniper weapons sparked an idea for future class specific loadouts. NWI has been great about updating and improving their game and I'm sure they would be game to try some of these if us players really wanted it. The idea is that these would cost extra supply points or be built in features for the class. I would love it if there was a mechanism like in Day of Infamy to earn more points per round by taking or holding objectives, or getting points for kills. Some ideas of how it can work:

Commander class

  • Ability to make calls or coordinate squad movement by marking the map or marking movement locations with the binos (no supply point cost)
  • For security, call laser guided munitions, with observer pointing laser
  • For insurgent, call bomber drone that can be guided by observer and explodes upon signal or after 45 seconds

Observer

  • Radio acts as default body armor, can stop .762
  • Use laser to guide munitions/drone
  • Tripwire claymore or IR explosive

Rifleman

  • Different ammo type options
  • Impact grenade

Breacher

  • 1x use of room breaching robot with mini explosive
  • Cheaper body armor
  • Free gas mask for security

Gunner

  • Add a long barrel for increased bullet speed, extra penetration

Specialist

  • long barrel option
  • claymore/tripwire option

Marksman

  • Variable zoom scope option
  • Cheaper scopes
  • Claymore/IR explosive option
  • Pistol 1x scope option

Commander:
Map Marking doesn't sound so bad. Having a bit of marking tools might be useful, but considering the smaller scale, I don't know how useful it would be. The fights usually aren't so long-distance, and the locales are unique enough where callouts exist, whereas a game like Squad or Arma really doesn't have that benefit.

In regards to observers having the control and designation tools, I don't think that quite fits the bill. With the exception of the Insurgent's explosive drone, there isn't really a true fire support option based around being 100% precise.

Observer:
Ehhhhh, I'm not sure how good I feel about someone getting heavy armor protection on their back, especially if it's an essential piece of their kit that they can't drop. If it's offer HA protection, then it's probably got some heft to it. If it's got too much heft, then it'll make what's supposed to be a mobile class hanging on to the commander's ass that much harder to play and won't offer as much synergy with other loadouts.

I already said my piece on controllers and designators. If anything, it'd still probably be best used as a commander tool since they know where they want the fire support.

Any sort of AP landmine I'm going to want tied to a detonator rather than tripwire. It still places importance on observation, patience, and attentiveness, while also making it much less likely to wipe your team like C4. Compare that against 3 observers and 2 marksmen taking anywhere from 1-3 claymores that don't require monitoring, then RIP literally any aggressive push onto an objective.

RIfleman:
NO. This specific area always goes towards HP/AP suggestions. AP and HP rounds were specifically removed since AP was ridiculously OP in INS 2014. Imagine turning a Makarov in a FAL, and you have the power of AP

Breacher:
Pass on the bomber drone. Carrying a rogue suicidal WALL-E (Or worse, and RC-XD copycat) is something that'd rather not be dealt with, especially when trying to hold a position or defend a cache.

Cheaper armor; eh, okay. I mean, most people use breacher for the light weapons and high mobility, but you do you.

Free gas mask? Sure, absolutely. Breachers are the ones pushing through smoke the most anyways. In fact, to replace the Jihadist WALL-E, why not add CS gas grenades? Smaller cloud than smoke that's opaque. Causes coughing, blurs vision, and causes a lot of sway, similar to being suppressed. Get your mask on, or clear out to counteract the effect. Someone affected can still return fire accurately unlike a flashbang's effects, it's just harder to do so.

Gunner:
The PKM and SAW already have the highest penetration in game, only behind the M24 and Mosin, and them only behind the DShK. They pen roughly the same as the SVD.

That being said, Insurgents are getting an MG3 and I believe RPK at some point. Security is getting a M240. Most of your issues are stemming from a lack of variety in the Gunner's arsenal for right now, but that'll be rectified.

What I REALLY want for the gunner is completed partial reloads. Currently if you quit a reload midway with an LMG, when you start back up, you start by grabbing the nonexistent box. It'd be nice if they benefited from staged reloading too considering how long a reload is overall for them.

Advisor
Again, similar to the issue regarding Gunner, Advisors have more weapons inbound. That being said, long barrels were present at one point, but similar to AP rounds, were removed for being a go-to mod that increased velocity and pen, which by how damage is calculated, flat out increased damage on most weapons.

I've also stated my piece on automatic landmines.

Marksman
Technically speaking, the Tan Elcan is supposed to be variable zoom, but it doesn't reflect in game because the devs intended the high price and lack of flexibility to be a balance point in exchange for a drastically longer engagement distance.

Personally, I think the 4x and 7x scopes are already priced reasonably..

In regards to pistol sights, I think having the option to mount an RDS or Tritium sights would be perfectly fine.

Meh, I like the claymores/tripwires, but I would only give them to demolitionist and I would only give them 1. Assaulting a position is already hard, we don't need objectives filled with mines.

Radio stopping 7.62 would be OP (also, which 7.62?).

Ammo types are officially out of the question, NWI wanted to get rid of AP and HP ammo in Sandstorm.

I like the idea of the laser pointer and the drone for the Observer though, it would make this class more interesting than just following your commander.

For the Breacher, I don't know what you mean by "room breaching robot", but a breaching charge could be nice for Breachers or Demolitionists : it would get rind of anything hiding behind the door in a good radius.