PointShooting need to be more accurate.

Here is a clip of point shooting without moving my mouse, aku is not the most accurate weapon, but this RNG horizontal recoil when point shooting is really frustrating and needs to go. I'm fine with vertical recoil but this is too much bouncing left and right, it doesn't feel natural. Point shooting IRL is really accurate if you're good, and in therms of gameplay balance I just feel like it would just be way more satisfying to be able to pointshoot more accurately.
0_1548694692467_Insurgency Sandstorm 2019.01.18 - 21.15.07.03.DVR_Trim_Trim_Trim_Trim.mp4

last edited by Rudged

RNG recoil (and sway) needs to be removed from the game entirely. I'm tired of gunfights being decided by the random number generator.

hahaha. that looks so stupid, the system in the original felt really good IMHO. Just enough free aim to feel natural and not to much to fell stupid. definitely shouldn't be RNG.

I feel this is a big problem with Sandstorm.

They over complicated the gunplay.
Had they limited the changes and make them more subtle, so it would feel different but not difficult, I would understand.

But this is a complete re-work and it no longer feels like the Insurgency I’ve come to enjoy.

Unless they make changes so that gunplay is a lot more similar to the original, I won’t be recommending or playing the game.

The ADS accuracy is a hit or miss too.

Sometimes the feel of the gun is authentic and good to use, yet for some reason when firing at longer ranges the gun feels out of control, or in my best term (sloppy) with the movement of the optic.
Like when firing at a target, the optic "lags" behind or isn't very precise; Its not consistent with the movement of the mouse.

I'm not sure what this issue could be.

Community Managers?

From my experience and testing the accuracy in ADS is completely fine. The video shows what I guess is the way the developers balance "hip shooting" aka not going ADS. I feel that hip shooting was way to accurate in the beta and so I am fine with the recoil pattern.

From what I tested, it is also not "RNG". It is not random and has a fixed pattern. This means players can learn the pattern if they want.

If you have issues hitting people on longer distances, be aware that the game is using a hybrid hit detection system. It is using hitscan on shorter distances and projectile based hit detection on medium to longer distances.

@mefirst I'm fine with ADS shooting. The thing is what you call "hip shooting" is actually "point shooting" because the weapon is shouldered and not on the hip. In real life you would be as precise when point shooting as you are when you ADS.
There is absolutely no pattern for the recoil when point shooting, it's fully random and jumps left and right for no reason other than balancing purpose but I think it's pretty bad, it should be way more precise and not have as much horizontal recoil when point shooting. Again I'm perfectly fine with the recoil when aiming down sight, I think Sandstorm has really good gunplay, only point shooting need adjustments to be more reliable.

last edited by Rudged

I am aware of this, but I honestly don't care too much about real world stuff in this game, because this is not a simulation and the common term in gaming for not shooting from sights is hip-shooting. Before the YOU DONT KNOW SHIT bandwagon comes in, I have +2.5k hours of ArmA 3 (let us not mention ArmA 2 etc) and this is a game where you can "actually" point shoot and hip fire.

This aside, from my testing there are very clear patterns that you and I can replicate. Even IF there is a lot or RNG in hipfire in Sandstorm I would call it reasonable within the mechanics of the game. i have played the beta enough to know how stupid too accurate hipfire is.

@mefirst

I don’t mind hipfire being unreliable, hence the name. It really should only be used for point blank fire.

What is your opinion on the ADS in the game?
Or does that seem perfectly fine to you as well?
I know you come from Arma but I come from Ins2014 and the gunplay here just feels horrendous from what I’m used to.

@MeFirst @Mr-Rain I got 1k on Arma, DayZ and PUBG, and I've played the previous Insurgency. I'm fine with the gunplay on this game, I just think a more precise pointshooting (or hipfire as you call it) would reward good players, that know where their gun is pointing at.
I don't understand how you can like it so innacurate, to me you should be able to point shoot a guy standing 15m away no problem if you're good at knowing where you're aiming at. Because right now it's like the character has no fkin muscles to hold his weapon, like an 8 years old. And I'm fine with some vertical recoil, I just think there's way too much horizontal bouncing when not aiming, that's it.

last edited by Rudged

@Mr-Rain
I don't "come" from ArmA 3. I was using this as a counterargument to the usually unavoidable "you don't know about "muh realism" argument of other people. I have +2.5K hours of ArmA 3, but I also played the standalone Insurgency and the old mod. Apart from that have played and still play a lot of first person shooters. Some of them go in a relatively similar direction like Insurgency and some don't.

I never had any issues in Sandstorm when going ADS that I could not attribute to the following:

  1. Lack of experience and so I maybe "overshoot" because I miscalculated the recoil.
  2. General mistakes like simply missing a shot etc.
  3. Bad hitreg which seems to have improved since beta.

@Rudged
There are two different things. Personal preference and "what I like" and understanding why certain things are the way they are and what the reasoning behind it is. In this case both I do like it and understand it, especially when I compare it to the beta.

The developers intend to make a game that plays in a certain way. One example could be Titanfall 2, which I played a lot and and the intention was to have fast gameplay with a focus on the movement system, a lot of vertical level design that can be used and obviously big robots. Then you have a game like let's say Six Siege where the focus is a lot on positioning, teamwork and good and quick aim in regard to headshots.

When I played the beta it felt way too easy to basically just spray and pray on full auto. Sandstorm wants you (at least thats my opinion) to utilize a lot of different skills and it is not just "point your gun in the direction". It wants to user cover, create concealment with smoke and somewhat communicate with your teammates. When it comes to the gunplay I think the game is actually good at the definitely slower and more methodical pace in some situations, while fights can then become extremely fast in the real close ranges (like inside a building). I think this is currently balanced pretty well and "being too good" in both of these areas would ruin that balance and also eventually create a pretty unremarkable gunplay experience. Thats a short explanation.

My original point was something different.

  • A lot of guns do not have terrible horizontal recoil, even if you don't put any attachments on it.
  • From what I have tested, the recoil patterns are consistent and that means players can learn and counter them with proper recoil control.

@mefirst said in PointShooting need to be more accurate.:

@Mr-Rain
I don't "come" from ArmA 3. I was using this as a counterargument to the usually unavoidable "you don't know about "muh realism" argument of other people. I have +2.5K hours of ArmA 3, but I also played the standalone Insurgency and the old mod. Apart from that have played and still play a lot of first person shooters. Some of them go in a relatively similar direction like Insurgency and some don't.

I never had any issues in Sandstorm when going ADS that I could not attribute to the following:

  1. Lack of experience and so I maybe "overshoot" because I miscalculated the recoil.
  2. General mistakes like simply missing a shot etc.
  3. Bad hitreg which seems to have improved since beta.

I gotcha. It’s probably the horizontal recoil that throws me off but it really feels odd compared to Source.

My experience has typically been:

  1. ADS doesn’t line-up quickly (using only irons.)
  2. ADS doesn’t line-up where I think it will be. (Not easy to explain what it is)

I usually wait for the ADS animation (from hipfire to irons) to stop before I start shooting but it seems like it’s too slow for me to do that anymore. But then if I try to shoot mid-animation, I have no way to know where my shots are actually going and end up missing targets at any range.

I really need these guys to put in a shooting range because it may be a set-pattern and something simple that I’m missing but it does feel random or at least inconsistent at times and I don’t have a good way to test what it could be.

Quick demonstration on the recoil pattern you get when you "hipfire" aka point shoot. The gun does not have any attachments on.

https://gfycat.com/ScarceMiserableDeermouse

I think I did some very minor vertical recoil control with the second mag on the start.

last edited by MeFirst