Weapons balance (competitive)

At the current state of the game and the competitive theater there are 2 things that should be looked into when it comes to weapons balance.

1. The breacher class weapons between the 2 teams. Both security weapons are far superior to the insurgents weapons. Based on my experience, people are more eager to play the breacher class on the security side compared to the insurgents side because of that reason. This is quite clear when looking at the weapons stats.

  • Comparing based on the cost of the weapons we can see that both the UZI and the MP7 cost 6 supply points and are of comparable weight (8% and 10% respectively) and recoil. However, when it comes to stats (mainly ROF and Pen.) the MP7 is ridiculously overpowered compared to the UZI as seen below.

0_1549111214998_MP7 6sp 10w.JPG
0_1549111229703_UZI 6sp 8w.JPG

  • Again, based on the cost we can see that both the Mk18 and the AKS-74U have a cost of 7 supply points and the same weight of 10% as well as comparable recoil. As before though, when it comes to stats the Mk18 is superior to the AKS.

0_1549111250888_Mk18 CQBR 7sp 10w.JPG
0_1549111264475_AKS-74U 7sp 10w.JPG

2. For the assault class I believe that there is a FAL/EBR meta evolving because of how powerful those weapons are compared to other rifles in each side.

I will only compare the above 2 weapons with other rifles of similar cost and weight.

Security
Both M4 and EBR have a cost of 7sp and a quite similar weight of 14% and 15% respectively. However, as can be seen from the stats the EBR has way higher penetration compared to the M4 making it a OHK weapon. For this reason, the advantages that the M4 has (higher ROF and less recoil), are completely negated by the fact that with the EBR you do not need to spray at all.

0_1549111296874_EBR 7sp 15w.JPG
0_1549111311693_M4 7sp 14w.JPG

So, what is the incentive to pick the M4 over the EBR? Is there any?

Insurgents
Both the AKM and the FAL have a cost of 5sp and a similar weight of 14% and 15% respectively. Again, as can be seen from the stats the FAL is superior to the AKM in every aspect, given that they also have quite similar recoil values. So, same with the security side, what is the incentive to pick the AKM over the FAL?

0_1549111326523_FAL 5sp 15w.JPG
0_1549111343869_SKM 5sp 14w.JPG

In my opinion there are 2 options here on how to bring balance.

One would be to increase the weight, and subsequently the ADS time, of the FAL and EBR which will also have the effect of throwing players off time when rushing positions with those overpowered weapons.

Second option would be to increase the cost of those weapons, so that players that pick them will need to make a decision of having an overpowered rifle but with no utility, or a less powerful weapon + utility.

Thoughts???

Is weapons balance something that we should be expecting with the upcoming patch?

last edited by Bullet59

@whitby I am not really referring to gunplay or lethality. I am talking about realtive weapons "performance" between teams and between guns.

@bullet59
I`ll take UZI over MP7 any time.
MK18 agree.
MK14 and FAL are about the same
AKM is really not worse than M4A1

I guess it is all about personal preference .. if you use mosty semi auto you dont prioritize fire rate and recoil as much as penetration and damage.

@n4thani3l I am not comparing MK14 vs FAL, neither M4 vs AKM. I am comparing MK14 vs M4 and AKM vs FAL.

@bullet59 Not really seeing the difference here.

For example, FAL behaves almost like a gun, SCAR behaves like a paintball marker. Aren't these supposed to be eachother's counterpart?

As for M4 vs FAL, well, it's a lethality issue. FAL isn't lethal enough, M4 isn't lethal at all. If the M4 had some lethality it would be of some use. In CQB, your best bet is a FAL since you can win an exchange on a mouseclick. At range the FAL is the best bet because it sometimes downs people instead of the M4 which never under any circumstances ever will unless it's a headshot.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby said in Weapons balance (competitive):

As for M4 vs FAL, well, it's a lethality issue. FAL isn't lethal enough, M4 isn't lethal at all. If the M4 had some lethality it would be of some use. In CQB, your best bet is a FAL since you can win an exchange on a mouseclick. At range the FAL is the best bet because it sometimes downs people instead of the M4 which never under any circumstances ever will unless it's a headshot.

Hyperbole much? I generally agree with you that weapon damage needs improvement, but saying weapons like the M4 aren't lethal at all is an enormous exaggeration that does nothing to further your point.

@maa_bunny

But it isn't.

FAL is roundabout twice as lethal, both fire full auto, both can have 30 rounds in the magazine. FAL also has the ability to punch through cover a bit more consistently. What advantage does an M4 have? The ability to attach a drum magazine? Whereupon you can have nearly twice the ammo with actually less than half the effectiveness per round? The only argument which can be made here, is there's a midrange sweet spot where the M4 is controllable on full auto but the FAL isn't. Which I'd counterpoint with the simple fact that the FAL doesn't neccessarily need follow-up shots as it can sometimes kill people.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby You have to be joking... I am not sure if you understand my point here.
Whatever you are talking about is a different discussion and completely off-topic from the point I am trying to make.

I am not trying to be offensive here but seriously, are you trolling me?

@bullet59

Nope. My contribution to this discussion is that if the guns did damage like in Ins2014 there isn't the need to make the battle rifles clunky or inaccessible.

Anybody else believes that there is a FAL/EBR meta evolving at the moment?

@n4thani3l
I dont play competitively in the insurgency series. I always liked co-op more. Drink a few with friends and let the escapades unfold, but that part about penetration and damage. I would think that with the new system of so many things getting fired through that it might take more precedence now? than before? or does it not change enough to matter? The penetration damage that is...

Imagine playing breacher and not running a shotgun

please buff every other gun in the game except the PKM

last edited by cyoce

@cyoce I use the uzi. i take it over shotgun any day of the week.

@max80 why would you take that nerf gun over one of the few real Insurgency weapons?

@cyoce because that "nerf gun"get gets a 50 round drum with little to no recoil semi-auto is amazing for quick easy headshots. full auto is very manageable thanks to its amazing rate of fire. I don't use it to spray...its very forgiving on ammo supply and helps with accuracy. it's an effective weapon that comes with an ied. But that is my opinion and some would agree.

last edited by Max80