Damage Reflection...

Dmg Regurgitation is just so stupid what happened to people not being so damn sensitive all the time? A clear sign of this is that people get offended by being killed in a pre game warm up..? Really..? I get that this new Pepsi generation full of soy boys aren’t as tough as people used to be but common. Shits ridiculous.. thought this game was supposed to be “realistic” - “highly lethal”? Because so far it’s far from it... This was the best you guys could come up with to spare a few hurt feelings.. Soak up a few French Cries and Whaamburgers with damage reflection? Might as well play Anthem it’s just about as realistic... Derp Great Job!

@planetcanada

Dmg reflection is as bad as 3rd person shooters in my book, it doesn’t work in multiplayer at all. I do get feed up by trolls sometimes though, but why not solve them with other means? They are easy to counter as they are idiots by nature (pardon my direct language but I like calling a shovel a shovel) 🙂 Votekick and ganging up on trolls worked wonders in last game, while keeping the realistic stress of lethal teamkill being a thing.

Average gamer is mid 30s, so its weird devs soften features like that up to propose to ppl with high sensitivity, which I would guess is mostly a problem with ppl at very young age of maybe 12 years or less (and only in some cases), who want them in these types of games anyway - And no I am not hating on ppl of young age, just saying this Sandstorm game should not exactly rely on family friendly features ey - Family friendly games is after all what I want to get away from when NWI comes to mind, playing with people of all ages is cool and all, I just mute the whiny ones, but the dmg reflection is like an un-mutable constant whining feature.

last edited by Pacalis

Maybe instead of damage reflection, you just have the friendly marked as an enemy when he does enough damage to his team, kind of like marking him as a Traitor.

Said Traitor still has a damage reduction penalty for shooting teammates, but his former teammates no longer have a 75-80% damage reduction for shooting him, and they are also not penalized for TK.

I'm not actually sure if this makes any sense (I didn't use serious thought for this lmao) but it seemed like a somewhat-realistic idea.

@marksmanmax Not going to lie I had some serious difficulties understanding that. That being said I never said I was a smart man but I know what love isss....!

@marksmanmax

I think you have a brilliant idea. Makes sense for me, would be interesting if anyone can find drawbacks to such an implementation, as from my point of view your idea sounds solid. Could have him marked with a tag like "unstable" to account for the cases that it was an accident, so the unlucky tk'ers could talk their way out of execution, except for that I fully agree. Your idea would both solve the problem with tk penalty going both ways when hunting down trolls, and make it easy to identify the rotten apple. Most importantly we could get rid of the magic damage reflection, as we would have a logical alternative. I hope the devs see your post!

I guess what could be important (needs some dev consideration), to avoid abuse, would be that the "unstable" tag or similar shows up the instant you do any team damage, but it has a quick cooldown, lets say about 10-12seconds, unless you hurt your team above a certain percentage of health as you mention, and the tag "unstable or similar" stays until death, maybe after 2 tks it stays from respawn without needing to be triggered by damage. This way we would avoid ppl trolling with the feature by one tapping team to provoke counter fire, as they would be "marked" for a short time even when doing minimum team damage.

You could get ppl to stay in line of fire on purpose, or staying ready to kill anyone who accidentally hits a teammate, so a votekick feature would still be necessary as well, but I think your idea is a lot better than the teleporting bullets we have now.

last edited by Pacalis

@planetcanada said in Damage Reflection...:

@marksmanmax Not going to lie I had some serious difficulties understanding that. That being said I never said I was a smart man but I know what love isss....!

I even knew I worded it pretty shit but I couldn't figure out a better way of saying it lol.

@Pacalis Well, it wouldn't trigger unless you did a certain amount of damage or something. Of course, another possible fix is to have a "Forgive" system which allows players who accidentally shot a teammate to be forgiven if the teammate shot decides to forgive them. Failing to be forgiven could make the player to be made a traitor or something. Simply having the person who shot a teammate die or take "invisible reflection damage" seems not only unrealistic, but counterintuitive to what Insurgency is.

It would be a fun-as-hell idea. Seems to make sense with how NWI makes these decisions, which basically comes down to "Let the individual decide and not the game itself". Some extra voice lines could really spice this up.

Ex. Directly after a teammate shoots a friendly Insurgent: "One of our brothers has gone against us! Hunt him down!"

The whole mechanic kinda reminds me of No More Room In Hell. You usually can't injure your fellow survivors at all, unless they've become infected with the zombie virus. At that point, you can eliminate him without any penalty (although there is a damage reduction, I believe).

I don't think there should be a Damage reflection. I would rather have a TK forgiveness in place.

In RS2, if I were to accidentally shot my teammate or end up blow up my mates. A UI indication would pop up stating that your teammate accidentally shot you and the victim get to make a choice if I could forgive the TK or not. I only forgive TK unless someone says "Sry" on text or voice chat. Perhaps, it must have been a dead teammate grenade I stumbled upon without warning. Or I got really stupid walking into a crossfire or got hit by a black blast. Otherwise, if someone ended up being a dick. I could just set it and forget it and let the TKiller take a penalty.

I wouldn't mind if NWI would at lease give us new MP settings for community server. I want to turn off Damage Reflection, add a vote kick, or turn off friendly fire.

Yes, I get it. Sometime teammates can be buttheads, and everything could go wrong. In fact, I got in stupid situation where I get paranoid that the guy who happen to be lurking around the corner might end up being a bad guy. Turns our that it was a friendly all this entire time.

@ldclaudius Sounds like I would play in your server! Unless you remove FF as this is a crucial element to have in the game for me. That instant you speak of when turning the corner and having to decide (white knuckled) if this guy is friendly or foe would be completely removed if you remove friendly fire therefore removing a large amount of intensity and immersion just as Dmg refucktion does... That being said I am usually able to tell friendly from foe quite quickly in this game as I find it quite easy to tell the character models and cosmetics apart once again with ease. But it still takes that extra second or two that can be life or death and adds that element I love of (Runs around corner “Oh fuck me that’s an enemy!”). As for the solution hey I’m open to a traitor feature these guys @MarksmanMax @Pacalis are talking about as long as it’s done right but I feel a forgive/punish system would be easier again along with a vote kick system and has worked in the past in several games just like RS2. I have played quite a bit of rising storm and Vietnam and it works quite well I have never had an issue I find it peculiar why the “trolling” is so much worse in this game “for some” than other games... Just throwing that out there. I never even had issues in Ins2014 not saying they weren’t there but I have thick skin? I dunno just sucks for me because I’m the one getting pushed away from the game... My problem right! She be what she be I guess...

@planetcanada said in Damage Reflection...:

Dmg Regurgitation is just so stupid what happened to people not being so damn sensitive all the time? A clear sign of this is that people get offended by being killed in a pre game warm up..? Really..? I get that this new Pepsi generation full of soy boys aren’t as tough as people used to be but common. Shits ridiculous.. thought this game was supposed to be “realistic” - “highly lethal”? Because so far it’s far from it... This was the best you guys could come up with to spare a few hurt feelings.. Soak up a few French Cries and Whaamburgers with damage reflection? Might as well play Anthem it’s just about as realistic... Derp Great Job!

Cool "whataboutism" there pal.

Starting with a complaint about a mechanic and then instantly switching to cry about that "pepsi generation". It would be even more ironic if you would call them out for being a snowflake, by crying yourself because you cant deal with something yourself.

The only drawback about those systems is that they can be very open to abuse. So trolls will move in front of shooting player to get the damage reflected in other systems to get the player kicked.

I think you need not just one system to handle this.

1. Forgive System
Important since I think that the majority of team damage is not intentional and it happens in situations in which the victim is also aware of it. An example would be that somebody rushes around a corner and the person around the corner gets spooked and puts a few panic rounds into the other player.

2. Report System
There are people who do team damage on purpose and they usually keep on doing that. Players need to be able to have a proper report function and if reports keep coming in, the player should be checked out.

3. Warn, kick, ban
People who keep doing it should get a warning then a kick (aka timeban) and then a permanent ban.

@mefirst Cool story bro! Why the fuck wouldn’t I complain? That seems to be the only thing the devs consider is when people cry so might as well give it a shot... Cries about being killed by teammates in some silly little pre game shenanigans and they remove it... Soft... Pal. Cries about being bullied/trolled and they add damage reflection... I’m just trying to make America err I mean Insurgency great again... Lol. Hey man don’t like me calling the newer generations soy boys that’s fair! But I can’t say I care I sees it everywhere. You should cry about it maybe the devs will ban me or something... Can’t say I care that much about that either Pal. I’m currently not even playing the game anymore after 260+ hours. Just come on here and get mad and try to add my little opinions here and there to return Insurgency to its former glory... Maybe I’m a tad insensitive. Anyways if you had read some of the other posts above your ideas have already been mentioned and I agree with some of them. At the end of the day I just want at least some of what I bought into when I pre-ordered two copies of the game one of which just to support the devs as I believed the devs when I was told Insurgency Sandstorm would be staying true to it’s Insurgency roots... Thanks for your time!

@planetcanada said in Damage Reflection...:

@mefirst Cool story bro! Why the fuck wouldn’t I complain? That seems to be the only thing the devs consider is when people cry so might as well give it a shot...

I'd argue this, but that was the cause of armor getting nerfed in the same update that fixed the hitreg, so... I got nothing lmao.

@mefirst said in Damage Reflection...:

Starting with a complaint about a mechanic and then instantly switching to cry about that "pepsi generation". It would be even more ironic if you would call them out for being a snowflake, by crying yourself because you cant deal with something yourself.

Well, ironically enough, he's crying because he currently can't do anything else. Unless NWI reworks the TK penalties and punishments, we're stuck with the current model and can't change it, even on community servers.

Now, as for Sandstorm, it's not 100% realistic, as that's not the Insurgency way. However, immersion is what Insurgency's always gone for, and magical "team reflect damage" takes away from that drastically.

Sure, @planetcanada is "crying" I suppose, but feedback does help fix the issues with the game, and it helps if NWI sees that there's a lot of disagreement with the current mechanics. At least he's upset about something that seems justified.

I definitely have to agree, though, that Sandstorm currently just isn't worthy of the Insurgency title. It's why I've posted a fuckton of suggestions for how to make SS a true Ins2014 sequel.

last edited by MarksmanMax