Please Allow Commanders to Remove Observers

Playing as a commander, I've far too often found myself straddled with observers who are utterly useless at their jobs and instead prefer to play the role of rifleman. Such observers are a detriment to the whole team, since they not only prevent the commander from doing their job, but also block off the observer role which would otherwise have been occupied by more capable and cooperative observers.

My suggestion is simple, please allow commanders the ability to remove observers if they find them unhelpful. A removed observer would immediately (or at the next objective) vacate the observer slot and be prevented from reoccupying the role for the remainder for the match. This would allow the role to be filled by more cooperative and useful observers instead of being hogged by people who have no intention of actually being useful within that role.

Similarly, please also allow commanders to commend especially useful observers after the match as a way of appreciating those who do well within the role and are a net asset to the commander.

A very good idea !
I support that.

Hey @cool_lad,

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll forward it to the team.

This leaves a lot of room for abuse. What if I just want to play Observer for the cap speed bonus? Am I in danger of getting kicked off a useful role because the commander is mad I'm not babysitting him?

But if we're going to give commanders the ability to remove Observers, we should give everyone the ability to remove Commanders. If you're not playing with your Observer, that's a kick. If you throw down smoke that helps the other team, that's a kick.

Why should someone choose the role of the observer but then decide not to "babysitting" the commander ?
The role of the Observer is to stay close to the Commander. He goes where the Commander goes.

It´s always the same with random people in a game.
There is no will to subordinate oneself for the best of the team.
Egoistic / selfish behaviour is typical for the younger generations.
Most of them are rebells who are not willling to help anyone.
Not even in a game.

I say such people should be kicked out of the Observer role.
They can choose another class where they can do whatever they want to do going lonewolf or race to the next objective or whatever..

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

@gsg_9_lightning Observers cap faster than other classes.

@gsg_9_lightning That’s pure bullshit because some commanders are stupid and run into certain death constantly etc... There is a ton of stupid crap they do so as an observer I choose to follow a commander that is clearly better in the role and actually beneficial to our success and the team. Yet you want me to get kicked off the role because some retard who doesn’t know how to utilize the role properly kicks me out of Observer role because I’m following the other Commander and not him? Or just simply not following him constantly to both our deaths?? This is a very stupid idea and would be yet another terrible decision on the devs part if implemented. Sorry MHO...

@planetcanada
To be honest you are the one who is talking bulls..t right now.

No doubt, this planet is full of idiots. Some of them also play video games.
If someone chose the role of the Commander and fails several times to lead the team to success it´s just up to the rest of the team to give him advice how to do it better !
Nowerdays bashing someone is more common than helping which i personally find very sad.

If you don´t like the guy ( because of personal things ) just refuse to play the observer role by NOT choosing it !
Just take another class and follow whoever you want to follow and let the newbie Commander play with some other guys as Observers.

But if you chose the role of the Observer your primary target is to stay with your commanding officer to enable him to make radio calls via your radio backpack to order fire support AND to protect him while he uses that damn binoculars in his hands because he is defenceless during that time.
Your job is to provide his cover ! And if you and the commander die in that situation it´s just because of your inability to protect him and yourself.
If the Commander steps out of cover to have a better vision and takes the risk of getting shot you don´t have to do the same.
There can be some range between Commander and Observer. Just stay in cover if you don´t want to but tell him that he is alone in that risky position.

If you doubt that the guy who plays the Commander is qualified for that job then just ask him kindly to leave and let someone else to do the job.
In 99 % of the cases the newbie will let someone else in that role because it´s the most hated role as not many people respect and accept the Commander as the teamleader.

But acting like you propose is called insubordination and you would be court marshalled in real life for that.
NWI wanted to add some ranking with this Commander / Observer thing and interestingly the younger generation players who play sandstorm do NOT play the game as it is supposed to be.

In the military ass kicks are given from top to lower ranks. So why should it be different here ?
Because it is a video game ?
That´s no valid argument.

Respectfull communication is the key to success.

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING
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@cyoce said in Please Allow Commanders to Remove Observers:

@gsg_9_lightning Observers cap faster than other classes.

That really doesn´t matter as the mission objective should be captured as a team.
It´s the typical egoistic behaviour that i am talking of : Choosing the role of the Observer to be able to capture points faster to rush to the next objective ( leaving the Commander alone ) just get the most points for capture.
This is NOT the way it´s meant to be played.

Move as a team and capture with your whole team !

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

@gsg_9_lightning

Of course people don't "respect and accept" the Commander as their leader. The only thing that differentiates him from the rest of the team is a pair of binoculars.

Nowerdays [sic] bashing someone is more common than helping which i personally find very sad.

This is coming from the guy advocating for the ability to kick players off a role because he thinks they're not playing it correctly. Wow.

If you don´t like the guy ( because of personal things ) just refuse to play the observer role by NOT choosing it !

If you don't like your Observer (because of personal things) just refuse to play the Commander role by NOT choosing it!

The Commander and Observer need to be in the same place to call in air support. The Commander is just as responsible for his positioning as the Observer.

But acting like you propose is called insubordination and you would be court marshalled in real life for that.
NWI wanted to add some ranking with this Commander / Observer thing and interestingly the younger generation players who play sandstorm do NOT play the game as it is suppoed to be

This isn't real life; this is a video game with some realistic elements. You're not my Commander. You're just the guy who clicked a different button from me. If you want to have some fun with roleplaying, queue up with friends.


I normally try to leave ad hominems and the like out of my posts, but I'm getting the strong impression that you're the type of person to say "all units advance to waypoint bravo. over" in voice chat, then proceed to get mad at your teammates for disrespecting the authority of your left mouse button.

last edited by cyoce

@gsg_9_lightning

That really doesn´t matter as the mission objective should be captured as a team. It´s the typical egoistic behaviour that i am talking of : Choosing the role of the Observer to be able to capture points faster to rush to the next objective ( leaving the Commander alone ) just get the most points for capture.

So now you're telling me that capturing the objective is egotistical behavior? The action that directly results in your whole team winning? You'd prefer me to follow the commander around the map as he calls in airstrikes over quickly and directly winning the game for my team?

If your teammates can't get to the objective but you can, it's not being a team player to give up and fall back. Take advantage of your circumstances to benefit your team by starting the capture.

@cyoce
I see you my friend are one of the rebells... probably 18 years old.
It´s useless to talk to you further on. You never will understand because you refuse any good advice.
You never will subordinate yourself for a nice, coordinated, gameplay experience.

@gsg_9_lightning Declining to play the game by your arbitrary standard isn't being a "rebel." Labeling me as a person who "will never understand" is a pretty convenient way to dismiss other perspectives instead of providing a counterpoint or considering even a slight shift of opinion.

last edited by cyoce

If the commander is doing "stupid things" because they haven't yet figured everything out they can usually take instruction, use the voice chat (because reading the text chat when things are hectic is not really going to happen). And be polite, it will help so much in getting your message understood when the receiving end doesn't think you're just being an asshole.

Ditto for the observer being reminded that they need to stay within quick sprinting range of the commander unless the commander is being a total idiot and not taking the instruction given.

General votekick will solve the most troublesome cases.

The softer version would be allowing rest of the team "mutiny" on the commander and the commander to "relieve of duty" an observer. Both forcing them to change class (default to rifleman, can choose new one as usual) at next resupply/respawn as usual. Not sure if actually worth the development effort though, maybe if NWI is stuck on never allowing general votekick again then this could work to soften some of the frustration of poor commanders and solo observers.

"Observers capture faster" is IMO a very, very poor reason to play observer as "high speed, low drag -operator". I didn't even know that actually being a thing. A much better mechanic would be to have the observer and commander together capture faster (than other classes, so extra bonus for being a good team) but if not in range for support then have the standard capture speed.

This thread seems to have turned into a great example of why being able to boot players from a role for not playing the game the way someone else thinks it should be played is probably a bad idea.

@MAA_Bunny yeah.

Though if the observers are not helping the commander then the commander can simply switch classes, it's not like it's "a better class" in any way when they can't use supports and team is not any worse off because they were not going to get that support anyway. Maybe someone else will step up and manages to convince the observers to be better team players.

The commander doing the "wrong things" and not taking instruction or stepping down is more of a problem for the team.

And yeah, definitely gotten my share of salt from people who run right under my supports even though I always announce them in voice and often even before actually calling the support tell the team to slow down a bit because I intend to call supports before we go to the point.

I play commander most of the time because no-one else seems to want to and I see the value of having those supports... "It's a shitty job, but someone gotta do it"

edit: I also generally play with a few friends in a group so I almost always have a "trustworthy" observer, they take one observer first then I'll see if anyone else is willing to play commander. if not I'll step up, if yes good for them, they have a good observer.

last edited by mashiara

@mashiara I think the cap speed bonus should be given to another class, like breacher. But as long as it belongs to the Observer, it will always be a good reason to play Observer IMO.

Alright, let's get one thing straight. Regardless of the cap speed bonus, the observer's only actual role in a team is to ensure they they're covering the commander and available to call in a strike whenever that's required. The commander's role on the other hand is certainly not to cajole or convince the observers, it's to ensure that the team is somewhat coordinated and provide them with supports. An observer that isn't available or extremely close at hand when the commander needs to call in a support or communicate with the team is in no way helping the team: no matter what his skill with the gun, he's only dragging the team down and being a massive liability.

If you're great at clearing points or want to focus on capping, the rifleman and breacher classes exist and are focused on that exact playstyle. If you play as observer and ignore the commander, you're a double liability to the entire team, because you're both failing your own role and preventing the commander from effectively fulfilling his own role.

And yes, while the cap speed bonus does create a perverse incentive for the observer, and should in all likelihood be reallocated or only be given in the presence of the commander, it's not the main purpose of the observer and certainly not an excuse for ignoring the role. That's also the reason you can't remove the radio from your back, since the use of that radio and supporting the commander is the raison d'etre of the observer.

@cool_lad You can't just declare that Observers only have one real role. The Observer gains two unique benefits; pretending one of them doesn't exist is disingenuous.

An observer that isn't available or extremely close at hand when the commander needs to call in a support or communicate with the team is in no way helping the team: no matter what his skill with the gun, he's only dragging the team down and being a massive liability.

He's helping his team by capturing objectives twice as fast as anyone else. Fire support may help keep reinforcements off the point, but an objective-focused Observer can cap before reinforcements arrive. Rifleman might work for the PTFO playstyle, but Observer is optimal.

And if I picked Observer to play the objective, assuming there's an open Observer slot (which there almost always is), I'm no more responsible for following the Commander than any other teammate who could swap to Observer.

That's also the reason you can't remove the radio from your back, since the use of that radio and supporting the commander is the raison d'etre of the observer.

I'm pretty sure the radio is also what increases cap speed because that's how it worked in DOI. But that's irrelevant, considering you're forced to use it.