Game's dead. Massive change of direction needed.

For competitive gamers, the game's basically dead. The matchmaker might take up to an hour to find players for you and when it does, it's gonna be like 3 newbies and 2 random soloers vs a 5-stack or some other non-competitive crap.

Lots of competitive players have subsequently abandoned the game. Player counts are only getting worse every week. Look at the steam charts: https://steamcharts.com/app/581320#3m The spike from the last update is barely there and it didn't last even a week..

What's needed now is some massive changes in the direction of the game. The game needs to regenerate its novelty factor. It needs to get back to the point where it's basically a new game for people to try out. I've no idea how to exactly do that, but there needs to be some changes done that make streamers, gaming magazines and youtubers go "oh wow I really need to check this game out again and see how it's doing". If the route is going to be minor updates and maybe one new map and a new gun in the next half a year, the game's going to be fully dead before summer's over.

Don't let this game die. The launch was somewhat of a fuck up in my opinion, but there still must be a way to redeem this. It's a great game with great mechanics and deserves better. But first it must be understood that considering it a mostly final product is not the way. There has to be some big changes.

last edited by tzaeru

"SS competitive will fail spectacularly. People who want a competitive game play competitive games. R6/CS/etc. The maps in SS guarantee this will never be a reality as they're unbalanced, huge and are not designed with lanes." -Me, 26 Nov 2018.

https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/32559/does-anyone-else-think-that-time-to-kill-is-a-little-high-compared-to-original-insurgency

Unless the maps get totally redesigned the competitive will remain dead. What NWI needs to do is take these absolutely spectacular maps and make some awesome coop gamemodes and turn SS into an immersive shooter instead of a "competitive" title. Would cost a lot less than redoing all the maps and they'd have a product which would at least please some players.

Dropping competitive would be one big change for sure. But I doubt this game can keep its head above the surface without the competitive mode. There are way more immersive war shooters out there - Squad, ArmA co-op scenarios, Wildlands, even Battlefields..

What makes Sandstorm special and stand apart is having a proper competitive mode. If anything, the competitive mode should be focused more on, not less. Competitive players keep games like this alive and keep generating interest for it.

Either way, some big changes are needed.

last edited by tzaeru

They are unable to supply both Competitive & Casual type maps

The release of the Map Editor eventually will hopefully help both areas with the community making maps for both types of gameplay

ArmA's realism, not immersion.

Wildlands? Battlefield? Nah, that's casualised nonsense.

Immersion shooters would be Ins2014, DoI, Red Orchestra, etc. I don't think there's a next-gen graphics immersion shooter on the market. Sandstorm could sort its suppression and gunplay mechanics out and nail that niche low-cost.

Nobody plays Sandstorm competitive, how on earth is that what keeps the game above water? The maps ensure this.

@whitby said in Game's dead. Massive change of direction needed.:

ArmA's realism, not immersion.

Ever played ArmA co-op scenarios with some friends? Those are awesome. Some of the most immersive war gaming fun out there. Sandstorm's co-op comes nowhere near close.

Wildlands? Battlefield? Nah, that's casualised nonsense.

So is the Sandstorm versus mode. And anyway, which is more casual doesn't really matter per say, what matters is that it's an overlapping market segment. The versus and co-op modes are not special enough to get lots of players for this game, I feel. The competitive mode however, could be. There's not all so much market for competitive gaming in this format; mainly CS.

Nobody plays Sandstorm competitive, how on earth is that what keeps the game above water? The maps ensure this.

It's what has streamers (the few of them that there are), leagues, tournaments for. The game absolutely needs the competitive mode to survive in my opinion. Without it, there's not going to be long-term interest.

I, for one, am only interested in the competitive format. I basically never play the versus mode because it's just not a very interesting format. If I want to feel like I'm in war, I'd go for Squad or so.

...but nobody is playing it. Clearly very few people want it...

I only play versus when I’m actually playing as currently I am not... But competitive for me is completely ruined simply by the fact that the dead can communicate with the living. That simple fact alone will keep me from playing the game mode right there. I would just play R6... Can’t handle when my team that couldn’t be bothered with staying alive is screaming pure rubbish in my ear as I’m trying to concentrate on sounds and what’s going on.

@planetcanada said in Game's dead. Massive change of direction needed.:

But competitive for me is completely ruined simply by the fact that the dead can communicate with the living.

Can't really stop that. Groups would just use Discord or something similar and randos would be in even larger disadvantage.

Plus, it's pretty big part of the game as is to call out where you died.

last edited by tzaeru

In my opinion this game will only survive when they manage to optimize it, solve the different bugs and start concentrating in the competitive mode.

Competitive players are the players that will keep playing in the long term.
Coop players will leave the game in a few months. They won´t play the game in the long term.

Matchmaking should be improved. I play with 2 other friends and at the end we always have to play against the same people. I know this is difficult with the actual amount of people playing competitive, but maybe some kind of reward system for competitive mode would help.

An official ranking / ladder is needed. This would motivate people. Leagues are not enough.
A TV where you can watch high end league games.
Reporting is also necessary.

I still have hope and think, that players playing the old Insurgency will move to this one as soon as NWI has improved optimization and resolved bugs.

What I can agree with is, that if they don´t make a move fast and improve also the communication with the community, this game is gonna die. It will be a pity.

last edited by A Former User

@tzaeru @Thorus I get that and I still think it’s super lame and unrealistic which is why I would never get serious about comp... And the old players won’t come to SS because it’s a far cry from what Insurgency 2014 was and currently is in terms of many things, gameplay, realism, lethality, etc... I have many hours in the old Insurgencies and I never played comp before either. The only reason I don’t still actively play Insurgency 2014 is because the graphics and physics are a little dated which is why I was “WAS” so excited about SS because I thought I was getting Insurgency on a new engine. This did not come to fruition. This is not really Insurgency you can call it what ever you want.. it may have Insurgency DNA but did not “stay true to Insurgency roots” as originally advertised. Either way all I am saying is that those aren’t the real reasons INs vets are still playing the older Insurgency. Hell I have talked to quite a few people who play Insurgency and told me that the main reason they would not be getting or playing Insurgency Sandstorm was plain and simple because there was no Ambush mode and these people play Ambush religiously as did I once... Even if or when they add Ambush into this game I wonder if they will have enough interest in jumping to this game as once again they have made some IMO questionable decisions ie. damage reflection, no AP rounds, etc... Things that made Insurgency.. Insurgency..!

@thorus said in Game's dead. Massive change of direction needed.:

In my opinion this game will only survive when they manage to optimize it, solve the different bugs and start concentrating in the competitive mode.

I still have hope and think, that players playing the old Insurgency will move to this one as soon as NWI has improved optimization and resolved bugs.

The old Insurgency doesn't have a competitive mode, but it still has players. Why does Sandstorm need competitive to stay alive where history shows Insurgency did not? It's an honest question--not necessarily disagreeing with you, I just don't get it.

One thing that was clear from the Alpha was, Sandstorm is NOT like the "old" Insurgency. There was just a "vibe" that the Source version had that the new one does not--it's a whole, different game. That's fine, and I love Sandstorm for what it is, but what made Insurgency successful without a competitive mode where Sandstorm is bleeding players with a competitive mode? In my estimation, the biggest thing that's hurt Sandstorm is performance and bugs. Insurgency was not without its flaws, but at least pretty much anyone could run the game--and that's definitely not been the case with Sandstorm.

last edited by skillet

Main problem is Sandstorm feels like a battlefield game. Feels like ur using an airsoft rifle like so many other shooters. Sandstorm just does not have the lethality that Insurgency had. Period. The gunplay is just off. Made to appease the bunny hoppers

@rifleman said in Game's dead. Massive change of direction needed.:

Main problem is Sandstorm feels like a battlefield game. Feels like ur using an airsoft rifle like so many other shooters. Sandstorm just does not have the lethality that Insurgency had. Period. The gunplay is just off. Made to appease the bunny hoppers

Yeah, this sums up my problem with the game. I shouldn't need a G3A3 battle rifle to one-shot a pistol rusher.

The game is far from dead lol, HAWKEN is a dead game, not INS Sandstorm. The game is not so well known because there was practically no marketing for it, the publishers done a really bad job.

The game is losing players because people are sick of playing on the same few maps, players are sick of not having flashlights and hp/ap ammo, players are pissed classic maps weren't revamped and brought to the game, also the singleplayer crowd abandoned the game when the devs announced sp campaign was halted during production in favour of the coop/mp.

Well, that is probably part of it.

And, to be fair, there was a lot of work put in, especially during March, to address a lot of the long-running bugs.

But we're in a weird state where none of the major modes (coop, PVP, competitive) are complete and free of major defects, so essentially all of the different cohorts of Insurgency players have things that make Sandstorm less enjoyable than it should be.

Almost everyone I know (primarily coop players) have gone back to Ins 2014, since the weird bugs and lack of mod support make the problems here hard to work around.

Getting the mod kit out, or at least a map editor, will go a long way towards making this better for everyone.

@thorus said in Game's dead. Massive change of direction needed.:

Competitive players are the players that will keep playing in the long term.
Coop players will leave the game in a few months. They won´t play the game in the long term.

What? Do you even play Insurgency?

@jballou said in Game's dead. Massive change of direction needed.:

But we're in a weird state where none of the major modes (coop, PVP, competitive) are complete and free of major defects, so essentially all of the different cohorts of Insurgency players have things that make Sandstorm less enjoyable than it should be.
Almost everyone I know (primarily coop players) have gone back to Ins 2014, since the weird bugs and lack of mod support make the problems here hard to work around.
Getting the mod kit out, or at least a map editor, will go a long way towards making this better for everyone.

Workshop is the biggest thing that's kept Insurgency: Source alive, and it should absolutely be brought to Sandstorm ASAP.

I love this game for their competitive aspect but I can't play it because there aren't players, more than 20 min waiting every time I'm queued.