Please, change the Mosin issuing after death in hardcore mode to something else

Hey everyone!

The new hardcore mode is an outstanding experience within Insurgency! I truly love it. From now on - I just can't go back to that ultra-fast-paste gameplay of a regular PvP. So me and many more guys are waiting for hardcore PvP 🙂

But I have a problem with the current situation with hardcore mode. And the problem is the issuing of Mosin after respawn.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand why you did this and I'm all for it. Forcing people to play extra-carefully, scavange for ammo - it's all nice and dandy. BUT! Mosin adds arcade elements to the gameplay. It really does. I mean why would anyone pick up Mosin and go fight against enemies with fully semi-automatic © weapons? Mosin is super out of place in that mode.

So my suggestion is to remove all the ammo from the character's loadout and force player to use his secondary instead. And in case of missing secondary - issue him a Makarov. That would make a lot more sense within the modern combat situation and intentions to force a player to play carefully.

Thank you!

I had a similar issue with the implementation in that it broke my immersion whenever I played as Security to use a Mosin. I think that a good alternative would either be security forces starting with the M870 and insurgents starting with the Mosin, OR starting with the M16A4/AKM respectively with 1 magazine each.

This would still require scavenging and enforce scarcity but feel much more immersive. Especially with security forces.

A naked one mag AKM/M16 would be the most viable option to implement for players respawning. This allows the player to:

  1. Conserve shots
  2. Pickup ammo

@KahleKingzTV said in Please, change the Mosin issuing after death in hardcore mode to something else:

A naked one mag AKM/M16 would be the most viable option to implement for players respawning. This allows the player to:

  1. Conserve shots
  2. Pickup ammo

I know this is assuming 100% accuracy, but with a naked M16 or AKM you could kill fifteen bots without even reloading. There's only ever 12 enemy bots, max.

Giving each player this ability to kill this many bots this fast would just turn HC into regular Checkpoint where everyone's just running and gunning with zero teamwork.

last edited by MarksmanMax

Each side gets an MP5, naked, one mag, thats DEFINITLEY fair

@KahleKingzTV said in Please, change the Mosin issuing after death in hardcore mode to something else:

Each side gets an MP5, naked, one mag, thats DEFINITLEY fair

Well, that would also improve player effectiveness, but that's nowhere near as bad as like an AR or something. I'm kinda down for an SMG, like maybe an Usi for Insurgents.

It might be interesting to get a random weapon with one or two mags, like an SMG, bolt-action, shotgun, etc.

Also, any pistol but the Makarov plz. At least, if you spawn with a Mosin, I think a Hi-Power or M9 is fairer.

I'd like to see a mode where it's all AKM/RPK versus M16/M4 so that magazine exchanges become a part of a successful team strategy.

Having new players spawn in with no extra magazines, and existing players able to help buff them up if they take the time to distribute ammo, would add the difficulty and penalty of hardcore while giving players a way to beat that disadvantage.

Remember that when the teammate is rocking a Mosin and mostly combat ineffective, it's not just hurting him, it's hurting the whole team by degrading combat effectiveness.

Giving players a larger penalty, but offering new ways to overcome it, should be the general design here.

So I think that the current structure of hardcore coop really fails to make the whole thing feel more challenging or even curb the rampant rushing. All it dies is make you feel handicapped and the whole exoerice even more of a mess than usual.

The reason IMO is simple; there's no actual pressure to not die. The rusher will go out and respawn the next turn, swap his mosin for a dropped gun, rinse and repeat. The mosin makes dying feel like a penance, but doesn't really make you feel pressured to try to stay alive. The structure may work when you know who you're working with, but falls apart when applied to random people on the internet who may or may not communicate, since it lacks any actual fair feeling incentives, and the handicaps fail to actually make you feel like you need to stay alive in the long term.

Now one solution that I can think of is to make respawns less frequent and add in more objectives while keeping everything else the same as standard coop (better AI, fewer enemies, but no more mosin or lead weights on feet).

The basic idea is that resupply crates and respawns only appear on the capture objectives; no resupply or respawn on destruction objectives. However, each capture objective would be interspersed with more destruction objectives; so instead of blow up one cache and then cap a point, it would be more like blow up 2-3 caches before capping the point.

Now, of course this would require some work in exactly where the various objectives would be placed and what types of objectives go where, not to mention a few alterations to bot loadouts to remove molotov and grenades (in order to prevent them from scavenged and used to quickly destroy objectives, not to mention reduce the arbitrary deaths from laser guided grenades); but I can see a number of benefits to this.

This system would allow for hardcore coop to feel more pressured and place a greater incentive on staying alive (since you respawn less often) and judicious use of deplorables (since you resupply less). It would also curb rushing without any need for handicaps (which don't really seem to work anyways) since you wouldn't have any sort of assurance of just coming back into the fight, and even the stuff that the rusher does bring wouldn't be assured to be enough till the next resupply (thus promoting its judicious use). Best of all, it would do so without actually handicapping the player while still making them feel much more challenged.

Bumping this one up !
Nobody that i played with wants the Mosin or any other bolt action rifle as primary weapon when spawning ( after death ) in hardcore mode.
I cannot understand the idea behind that decision.
An unmodified M16 or M4 on Security Forces side and an AK 74 on Insurgents side would have been perfect for that.

Dear Forum Moderators, inform the NWI developers team about this necessity to change that primary weapon.
It´s the most fun killing thing in hardcore mode right now.

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

Literally anything else.

This post is deleted!
last edited by JMan

@MarksmanMax Have you seen the marksmanship of the players in this game? 30 rounds in no way means 15 kills. In theory maybe but iv watched people dump a mag at one bot and still not hit let alone kill it. Nor does it account for getting a bot in your face and putting maybe 3 extra shots into it while you panic. Considering you start off with a whole loadout, armour, carrier etc and people still manage to run out of ammo and die means something like a bone stock AKM would be more than fair enough. Especially since people very rarely use iron sights.

@Grave said in Please, change the Mosin issuing after death in hardcore mode to something else:

Literally anything else.

Well, Security spawns with an M-24 now, so that wish is granted ...

@yanot yeah, you should get an m4 or ak depending on the side, only ironsight, one granade and 2 magazines extra

I'd be fine with a pistol, 2 mags, 1 frag

If not. The barebones M4/AKM is just fine.

Really hate the Mosin spawn

You spawn with a pistol so am I used to using that now since the bolt actions are useless.

@Grave Not sure if I'd say "useless", although the M24 does seem like hot garbage, especially since you can't manually bolt it any faster like you typically can.