Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?

Frenzy Checkpoint. Why not add a real mode like Conquer?

last edited by Grave

@Grave Because the game is a joke...

Frenzy is awesome precisely because it is a parody of Checkpoint. The mode essentially owns the annoying AI traits that make me hate Checkpoint.

The special white bots teleport through the earth in a parody of the nonsensical spawn points of Checkpoint.

The Jason Vorhees bots take ludicrous amounts of damage (and wear groovy shirts).

The flaming bots are walking mollies, waiting to immolate the person who shoots them too quickly, in a parody of the GPS-guided mollies from the next map over.

Plus, there are billions and billions of bots.

It's a ton of fun, and I bought the game to have fun. I say well done, NWI. Frenzy is great.

@skillet So in other terms it’s a “joke” “funny” “haha” just like the game in its entirety... I call it pathetic but hey that’s me I’m pretty much completely done anyways so ain’t shit matter..!!

@skillet said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

Frenzy is awesome precisely because it is a parody of Checkpoint. The mode essentially owns the annoying AI traits that make me hate Checkpoint.

The special white bots teleport through the earth in a parody of the nonsensical spawn points of Checkpoint.

The Jason Vorhees bots take ludicrous amounts of damage (and wear groovy shirts).

The flaming bots are walking mollies, waiting to immolate the person who shoots them too quickly, in a parody of the GPS-guided mollies from the next map over.

Plus, there are billions and billions of bots.

It's a ton of fun, and I bought the game to have fun. I say well done, NWI. Frenzy is great.

Wow, just wow.

@Grave said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

Frenzy Checkpoint. Why not add a real mode like Conquer?

Maybe you don't understand. Frenzy is peak performance.

Nothing in Sandstorm really beats watching one of your teammates scream for help while seven takbirs are chasing him down with kukris. The mode is hilarious and it's also pretty fucking difficult to actually beat.

@skillet It actually just takes the broken AI that's currently in Sandstorm and uses it for a meme, and I can appreciate that.

last edited by MarksmanMax

It's actually a bit sad...
The game still isn't fully optimized (even though it's currently quite decent compared to when it came out, let's be honest), coop players still have only one game mode to rinse and repeat again and again (now with two new variations of the same gameplay), the competitive mode is still a corpse that seems to have been left to rot...

Devs didn't want to have too many coop modes as to not fragment the playerbase, but it's already more divided than Ins2014.
Now this meme mode... I have trouble understanding how that's not a suicide for Sandstorm. I mean, I have nothing against good jokes, but I'd rather see them when the game is finally completed. I guess the funniest joke will be to watch the player count drop with time !

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last edited by Grumf

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

...coop players still have only one game mode to rinse and repeat again and again (now with two new variations of the same gameplay)...

As a pretty much Coop-only player now, I can confirm that this is definitely false. Checkpoint and Hardcore Checkpoint are pretty much completely different modes, while Frenzy is in its own league entirely.

@MarksmanMax Still based on the same linear gameplay. They're not that different. Pace is changed, you have to be more careful, but that's it. It's not a different game mode like conquer or hunt are.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

@MarksmanMax Still based on the same linear gameplay. They're not that different. Pace is changed, you have to be more careful, but that's it. It's not a different game mode like conquer or hunt are.

Yeah, still the same points and paths, so I see what you mean. I'd love it if Survival was added as Survival can use a lot of, if not the entire map in Ins2014. It would also be pretty nice to see in Sandstorm since SS has larger maps.

@MarksmanMax Oh yeah, survival was a hell of a good time... I miss it now that you've mentioned it ! This was a real different mode. Crazy, but still credible and not dumb like this new "frenzy" mode.

I'm not saying the game should be 100% realistic survival hardcore simulation with civilians, aircrafts, simulated newtonian physics and 12 000 binds to learn by heart, but... This... It's too much. What will be next ? A freakin' battle royale mode ???

I bought Sandstorm because I thought it would be at least as good as the Source version, and because it was originallt supposed to have a solo campain where you'd play a kurdish woman fighter. That had so much potential to tell a great story... It could have become a real game that's worth something culturally.

I'd rather see the devs work into that rather than making it a silly game for streaming entertainement.

@Grumf I just posted this somewhere else, but I'll post it here. This is, in my opinion, the biggest reason Sandstorm isn't as good as Insurgency.

"Currently in Sandstorm, if you're shooting someone in the forearm (lower arm), the only weapons that will one-shot are the new anti-materiel rifles and shotgun slugs.

In Insurgency: Source, you can one-shot someone in the forearm with a Makarov without attachments.

It's like NWI completely ignored what made Insurgency such a good fucking game."

All good points... As a Versus only player I think this shit is gay as fucking hell but I get that none of you’s would care the devs sure as fuck don’t! All I see at all these days is steps further and further away from what Insurgency is about. If you ask me I think they should change the name because it’s not worthy anymore. Maybe like InDerpency Sensitive Soldiers... MO

@planetcanada said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

Maybe like InDerpency Sensitive Soldiers... MO

lmao.

Well, while I still hold some faith, it is fading fast. It's been ages since I actually referred to this game as "Insurgency: Sandstorm".

Now only do I call the game "Sandstorm" because it's shorter (and avoids confusion) but the game hasn't been close to Insurgency, really ever, if I'm being honest.

@MarksmanMax I don't mind a bit higher TTK, actually. If it was done correctly...
Besides, Ins2014 was not that different. Try not using AP ammo. You'll quickly see that you'd often need 2-4 bullets to down your target.

The game is not as good as Ins2014 because it has more bugs, is not balanced quite properly, has giant maps that are only used at... like... 40% of their potential... And most importantly because it lacks good quality content, that is being replaced with those rather shitty fast-food easy mindless fun game modes...

I wonder if the consoles ports can be blamed for that, actually...

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

Besides, Ins2014 was not that different. Try not using AP ammo. You'll quickly see that you'd often need 2-4 bullets to down your target.

Depends on where you hit. Arm shots were insanely lethal, and leg shots weren't too far behind.

Whenever I play Ins2 now, I actually don't use AP pretty often just to show that you don't really need it to annihilate people. In Sandstorm, you have to shoot someone's foot eight times with an MP7 to kill them.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

The game is not as good as Ins2014 because it has more bugs, is not balanced quite properly, has giant maps that are only used at... like... 40% of their potential... And most importantly because it lacks good quality content, that is being replaced with those rather shitty fast-food easy mindless fun game modes...

-> Bugs, yep.

-> Balance is fucking all over the place. Just look at the new fucking VHS AR.

-> You didn't mention this, really, but Sandstorm has some retarded fucking game mechanics.

-> The maps definitely aren't used very well IMO.

-> I'm honestly down for fun game modes, especially Frenzy. I do like that Frenzy doesn't really require the AI to actually be good, so it gives me a coop mode to play while NWI (hopefully; one day) fixes the goddamn AI.

I do find it hilarious that I've got two pretty popular Forum posts about the bot AI that no moderator has even commented on. There's also that whole Damage Reflection post I have that's currently the most upvoted post in this entire subsection and no mod has commented on that one, either. It's like I'm on some kind of blacklist or something.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

I wonder if the consoles ports can be blamed for that, actually...

Definitely. It's pretty noticable that being made for consoles had a part in this. Now, I'm not against Sandstorm on consoles (I think it's a great idea, honestly), but for fuck's sake, don't trash the PC game to get it working.

@MarksmanMax said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

In Sandstorm, you have to shoot someone's foot eight times with an MP7 to kill them.

Yeah, I'll admit that's quite fucked up, if that's really like that in every single case... 8 times is too much.

I'm honestly down for fun game modes, especially Frenzy. I do like that Frenzy doesn't really require the AI to actually be good, so it gives me a coop mode to play while NWI (hopefully; one day) fixes the goddamn AI.

And they'll never fix anything by spending time creating those silly game modes, and spending time debugging them afterwards... The game's heading in the wrong direction. If this keeps adding up, it'll just be lost forever... Modding may save the game later. We'll see.

I do find it hilarious that I've got two pretty popular Forum posts about the bot AI that no moderator has even commented on. There's also that whole Damage Reflection post I have that's currently the most upvoted post in this entire subsection and no mod has commented on that one, either. It's like I'm on some kind of blacklist or something.

This... Devs don't seem to care that much about the forums.
At least, one of my biggest posts about the holosight being fucked up and needing a rework so we can see through it was acknowledged and it was fixed, so that's already something. I was pretty sure I'd have to rely on modders' work to change that.

Definitely. It's pretty noticable that being made for consoles had a part in this. Now, I'm not against Sandstorm on consoles (I think it's a great idea, honestly), but for fuck's sake, don't trash the PC game to get it working.

Same story, different game... Everytime a PC game gets a console port, it's being butchered to please 12 year-olds and gaming pad users... I hate talking like this as it feels like I'm just an elitist PC-mustard race nerd, but damn... I've never seen any PC exclusive become greater with consoles involved in the developement...

last edited by Grumf

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

Yeah, I'll admit that's quite fucked up, if that's really like that in every single case... 8 times is too much.

It's only a mere 6 shots with a G36k, or 5 shots from an M4A1. It's honestly just bullshit.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

And they'll never fix anything by spending time creating those silly game modes, and spending time debugging them afterwards.

Well, that's what mind-boggles me. NWI created Hardcore Checkpoint, and in the process revamped the AI so they used a lot more tactics and strategy to them, but they couldn't be bothered to fix the current AI flaws during that time? It's not like my post about the bot AI is a first. The bugs have been known for months now.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

Modding may save the game later. We'll see.

Yeah. That's if full mod support comes out before this game dies lmao.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

This... Devs don't seem to care that much about the forums.

This is the weird part. A few months ago, I would report bugs and stuff and would typically get a mod response within one or two business days saying they'll forward it to the team. As of the past few weeks, exactly zero of my posts have been forwarded by the mods, even though other people will report the same bugs (but with less detail and information) and those people get mod recognition. I'm convinced there's a conspiracy around me or some shit at this point.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

Same story, different game... Everytime a PC game gets a console port, it's being butchered to please 12 year-olds and gaming pad users... I hate talking like this as it feels like I'm just an elitist PC-mustard race nerd, but damn... I've never seen any PC exclusive become greater with consoles involved in the developement...

Lmao. I'm a PC-master-race person, so I guess I can't talk too much, but this is pretty accurate.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@MarksmanMax said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

It's only a mere 6 shots with a G36k, or 5 shots from an M4A1. It's honestly just bullshit.

Ouch... Yeah... Never tested it, but wow...

The bugs have been known for months now.

Yup... I'm no developer, so I can't tell if it's hard to fix, or if it's a priority (sure feels like it is to me), but hey... Only thing we can do is providing feedback. Which they'll most likely ignore, tbh. At least here on the forums.

Yeah. That's if full mod support comes out before this game dies lmao.

If the game dies, I guess a full modding support would at least bring back some or the original core gamers. But even them can only do so much to fix the game. We need a good base game to have greater quality mods.

those people get mod recognition. I'm convinced there's a conspiracy around me or some shit at this point.

Might be, I dunno. I hope not. It would be incredibly rude.

Lmao. I'm a PC-master-race person, so I guess I can't talk too much, but this is pretty accurate.

I am too, and I quite dislike consoles for what they are : locked gaming systems that are way too vulnerable to casual soulless blockbusters that sell well... Compared to PCs that are a way more flexible and mature platform. I don't even own consoles anymore. Except for the original xbox since I have one single game that I still play occasionally.

I even strongly reject all the new launchers that try to get ahead of Steam even if this means no ubisoft/EA/Epic games (oh no, the horror ! What a loss !...). That's how much I love the PC. I just find too many PC elitists to be rather stupid and dishonest, that's all ^^

last edited by Grumf

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

I even strongly reject all the new launchers that try to get ahead of Steam even if this means no ubisoft/EA/Epic games (oh no, the horror ! What a loss !...). That's how much I love the PC.

lmao. Epic Games' launcher is such a meme basically no one's buying Metro: Exodus on it after they moved it off of Steam.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

Ouch... Yeah... Never tested it, but wow...

Shots to the lower leg also do insanely low damage for some reason. It's the same as being shot in the hand, I think.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

Yup... I'm no developer, so I can't tell if it's hard to fix, or if it's a priority (sure feels like it is to me), but hey... Only thing we can do is providing feedback. Which they'll most likely ignore, tbh. At least here on the forums.

I mean, I don't really care if it's hard to fix; it's making Cooperative modes weaker, with Hardcore being borderline unplayable in some cases. It needs fixing ASAP.

@Grumf said in Developers, why are you adding a joke mode instead of a real mode?:

We need a good base game to have greater quality mods.

This is one of the many reasons Ins2014 did so well. Mod support on top of a game that's already a masterpiece.