Let's discuss the new guns and their balance

After trying both the QBZ 3 and the VHS 2, I feel that the two guns are a little too good as of now. They basically crowd out the M4 and are seemingly much better overall than it. Their recoil, RoF and cost all seem to either match or be outright better than the M4. And while differences do exist in terms of things like penetration and velocity, they dont seem intelligible enough to make the guns distinct alternatives.

I think that they need to be adjusted in order to have clear distinctions between them and the M4, or alternatively, be put into a different price bracket (for example, the QBZ could easily be used as a G36K alternative for the insurgents with adjustments to recoil).

@cool_lad As of right now, the QBZ is an Insurgent alternative to the M4 that's actually just better than the M4 in every way. And here I was complaining about M4 spam.

But that's not all. The VHS makes me feel like I've left Sandstorm and jumped into Deus Ex: Human Revolution (mainly because of the look but also how powerful it is). It's broken as fuck. It's actually an MP7 chambered in 5.56 that has 50% less recoil. Not sure who the fuck thought that was a good idea. Sure, both guns have less pen than the M4 (they have the same pen as the G36k as of right now) but at least in CQB that doesn't affect anything shots-to-kill wise.

I'm not really sure what the fuck NWI's doing at this point.

last edited by MarksmanMax

I think that at least the horizontal recoil for the QBZ could be bumped up by 2-3 points. The VHS could get a bump of 1-2 points to its vertical recoil.

This way there's be clear differences between the guns in question; the QBZ having appreciably worse horizontal recoil while the VHS having a little more appreciable vertical recoil.

That said, the VHS just needs maybe a 1 point bump to the vertical recoil, since it seems to make up for that through the high (for its cost) horizontal recoil.

There's also the added issue of foregrips, which already trivialise the recoil on most guns but would be especially effective on guns such as these.

@cool_lad said in Let's discuss the new guns and their balance:

That said, the VHS just needs maybe a 1 point bump to the vertical recoil, since it seems to make up for that through the high (for its cost) horizontal recoil.

The VHS already has the lowest vertical recoil of any AR in Sandstorm, and just saying; nine points of horizontal recoil is basically nothing. Seriously, unless you're hipfiring, you'll never notice it, and even when hipfiring the gun's relatively controllable.

Throw in the fact that it fires 116 more rounds per minute than the M4A1, costs the same as an M4A1, and is available for Rifleman (so every single player on the team can purchase it), and you've got a new meta on the horizon.

I would pay 6 points for them.

After trying the guns more, I really have to change my opinion. The VHS definitely feels different to the M4 in that it's appreciably worse at range.

The QBZ feels more similar, but does feel different j the handling.

There may be need for adjustments, but I've come to appreciate the guns and can see them being a good addition to the game.

@cool_lad I would disagree. The only downside to the range of the VHS is the velocity, with the amount of recoil this gun has it can be deadly at range. Single fire has virtually NO recoil.

@RowanFPS said in Let's discuss the new guns and their balance:

@cool_lad I would disagree. The only downside to the range of the VHS is the velocity, with the amount of recoil this gun has it can be deadly at range. Single fire has virtually NO recoil.

Just crouch and maybe throw on a Foregrip and full-auto has virtually no recoil, either. It's a nightmare, and every single Security player can get it.

Hey guys!

Feel free to share with us your opinions about QBZ 3 and VHS 2. I'll share your feedback above with the team!

My boy Chaton's killing it, I swear lmao.

I'd be more alright with the VHS-2 if it had a tad more recoil, maybe costed an extra supply point, and was only available for Commander/Observer. I don't like every person on a team being able to go Rifleman and yeeting the best AR in the game.

I'd say the real issue here aren't the guns, but rsther the putting of foregrips on them.

Throwing a foregrip on any of these guns practically negates their recoil, but that's a problem with the overturned foregrip IMO and not the guns themselves (which, let's remember, also turns the FAL into a G36K and the G3A3 into an M4A1 on full auto).

Without the foregrips, these guns seem fine after playing with them a bit (the VHS for example seems appreciably worse at range than the M4). And foregrips themselves are a separate issue IMO which goes beyond these guns and should be considered separately.

Bump. VHS has too little recoil. Its vertical recoil should be at least 23.

@Action83 said in Let's discuss the new guns and their balance:

Bump. VHS has too little recoil. Its vertical recoil should be at least 23.

IMO it should be even higher than that. Why should it have less recoil and higher firerate than the M4? Why use the M4, then?

@MarksmanMax said in Let's discuss the new guns and their balance:

@Action83 said in Let's discuss the new guns and their balance:

Bump. VHS has too little recoil. Its vertical recoil should be at least 23.

IMO it should be even higher than that. Why should it have less recoil and higher firerate than the M4? Why use the M4, then?

I have to agree as VHS also gets a 40 round Extented Magazine. Smoke Launcher for it costs 3 points though.

I now suggest:

  • 25 vertical recoil (currently 21). With Foregrip you get the current recoil.
  • 1 cost Smoke Launcher (currently 3)
  • 2 cost Extended Magazine (currently 1)

Upon further reading, the reduced recoil seems to be accurate. The VHS has apparently been praised (won awards) for it's innovative firing mechanism featuring a sort of gas cushion, which results in dramatically reduced recoil.

So the recoil is accurate and thus I think not something that can be changed, since it is an actual feature of the gun IRL.

Perhaps instead of that, we could see an increase to the prices of VFGs, since they give massive amounts of recoil reduction, to the point of actually negating the actual weaknesses of some guns like the G3 and FAL.

Wow, there's some interesting information here! Will share it with NWI!