Gameplay and Gang speculation video

Hey buddies

I've taken the liberty to roam through the rulebook and here are my speculations on the content of the game!

Youtube Video

Let me know what you think, am I on track or totally off?!

Thanks for watching, see you soon!

First of all, nice vid.

I think you might be quite on track with your especulation, but for now nothing is settled. I like the ammo rules and the chance to jam weapon and having your ganger unjam his weapon, but instead of an accuracy debuff let it be better a random minor debuff to either accuracy or damage. As well, i would like that they make weapons be able to shoot several times before having to reload instead of single shot like the ones in Mordheim. Would they also add ammo supply to the gangers? Because that would make ranged fight something that can't become a sniper fight. As well, something i would like is different kinds of ammo and depending on the ammo, the weapon would have higher chances of jamming or not.

Stealth is something i also like, and i would like to see it expanded with some mechanics that would allow you also to move in stealth at the cost of movement range and certain options to lay ambushes, like steam vents to hide in.

@Game-kNight Enjoyed the video, I think being able to shoot into melee combat is pretty important - with a chance to hit your own units, this makes for more interesting and balanced combat.

As for gangs I'd like to see in the game, I'm really hoping for Pit Slaves - they've got some fun weaponry and a unique look about them. I'd also like to see Enforcers or Spyrers as they're both high-tech and field a small but powerful warband which I personally prefer to larger warbands.

@Tragedy said in Gameplay and Gang speculation video:

@Game-kNight Enjoyed the video, I think being able to shoot into melee combat is pretty important - with a chance to hit your own units, this makes for more interesting and balanced combat.

As for gangs I'd like to see in the game, I'm really hoping for Pit Slaves - they've got some fun weaponry and a unique look about them. I'd also like to see Enforcers or Spyrers as they're both high-tech and field a small but powerful warband which I personally prefer to larger warbands.

Thanks buddy - glad you liked it. Pit Slaves, Enforcers and Spyrers could indeed be awesome, but maybe added as supplements to the House Gangs? I'm really looking forward to seeing how they will shape the gangs and make them interesting!

Interesting vid. As for the gangs that will be included, if they follow the Mordheim template, they'll start with 4 and later add 2 as DLC (maybe more if the game is more popular?)

I would assume they'll start with Goliath and Escher (same 2 as in the upcoming tabletop re-release) plus Orlock (standard biker gang style) and probably Delaque (trenchcoat assassins). For the DLC, I assume Redemption and Scavvies.

Hopefully the game will be popular enough to include even more, but at the least some characters (Spyrers? Enforcers?) could be included in special missions and others (Ratskins? Pit Slaves?) could be DLC characters like the Wolf Priest and Doomweaver in Mordheim.

last edited by MeanBone

I really enjoyed your video, as for the sneak and stealth , there are sneak , and infiltration skills.
Having gun jams are essential as they arent brand new Bolters from the imperium they are 5th hand even 100th hand weapons , some even stub guns are home made and very unreliable.

having all these animated etc would really be something.

Even when units are in hand to hand , it would be amazing to see them duel rather than stand still, having them in melee , just fighting, blocking, parrying, weapons clashing .
Would make the whole gun combat in melee more real.

Alot of combat was hand to hand because at lower levels the Juves and the fresh gangers werent proficient in marksman skills.
So always relied on close quarters combat .

I think there will be Delaque, Goliath, Escher, Cawdor , these were the first four I remember when Necromunda released first generation

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere the original 6 Houses will all be in the base game, there's less issues making models per gang because unlike Mordhiem they're all human, albiet some are female and others are built like The Terminator. Easier to do than a bipedal rat and monstorous creatures.

Which still leaves them with room for expansion with various Outlander gangs, Ash Wasters and even Hive Wildlife.

@detortor said in Gameplay and Gang speculation video:

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere the original 6 Houses will all be in the base game, there's less issues making models per gang because unlike Mordhiem they're all human, albiet some are female and others are built like The Terminator. Easier to do than a bipedal rat and monstorous creatures.

Which still leaves them with room for expansion with various Outlander gangs, Ash Wasters and even Hive Wildlife.

As much as outlander gangs, the next gangs that will probably be introduced as DLC will likely be the Ratskins, the Scavvies, the Enforcers and the Spyrers.

Still, last 2 can probably be like Neutral enemies in Mordheim due to their gear, unrelenting toughness and potential for carnage.

Hope they don't use some of your ideas. Last thing we need is weapon malfunctions like you mention.

Well, they could implement ammo rolls but only when you have to reload your weapon, not every time you land a shot. Still, you have a good point, specially when i remember that a weapon exploding on your hands is a thing in this game

@glarghface it was fairly rare, and only for certain rapid fire weapons not all of them. I don't mind it for those specific weapons.

last edited by Anguloke

Not only those. Flamers had to pass ammo rolls every time they shot. And don't forget that grenades fail all ammo rolls after being used once

The problem is, they'll use those rules most likely, and carry over the ridiculous training system, and horrible resource system from their Mordheim production.

So on top of injuries, costs of replacing weapons that might make you leave a ganger behind for a mission, they'll probably keep the ridiculous sit out time for training that wasn't part of the TTs.

There are things they introduced in their adaption like that I hope they realize were mistakes.

On that, i think you have a point, but it was also to give the game some balance since the cost of time and money to train one of your warriors in one skill that will increase their survivability a lot would make you think a bit if it's worth it to have that warrior take those days off or not. But again, since the AI rolls a new warband everytime that is fully trained it makes no sense since the enemies will have all sorts of skills to best you.

It would be better that once your gangers get rank up and gain skillpoints, you could instantly invest them into a new skill with no training time. As well, i hope new skills make a difference, since most skills in Mordheim weren't that good

@glarghface it isn't a balance that was needed. It worked fine in the TT without it. I didn't have to keep out a model for the next 2-5 matches because they skilled up.

They need to go the way of Blood Bowl and make a game much more faithful to the TT.

This post is deleted!

@anguloke said in Gameplay and Gang speculation video:

Hope they don't use some of your ideas. Last thing we need is weapon malfunctions like you mention.

It was a thing in the TT - what it really depends on is how powerful ranged is going to be. I personally don't hope it will be too powerful, as we would have a game, where both sides would just be hiding behind cover, and shooting at each other (look at some of my recent Mordheim videos, where I play PvP with an almost purely ranged warband) - it would add a risk for the more powerful weapons to jam and thus you had to rely on your firearm or a melee weapon instead. How it should be implemented, I wouldn't know until we get to try it out :)

In regards to the skill training, I actually think a system like XCOM 2 would be be preferable over the BB2, it would reduce the randomness and give the player control over how the character was built. What I think will be needed is to keep some skills away from some gangers, thus making them specialized in their field. Or at least have some skills that required a certain class to pick.

On weapon malfunctions, if they are included, i hope they are put only when you reload your weapon instead of everytime you land a hit on the enemy. Personally, that would make the mechanic less annoying than having to deal with a possible malfunction everytime your attack. As well, there are more mechanics regarding weapons that we have to wait and see how they are implemented, like grenades being a weapon or a consumable, flamer ammo rolls and plasma weapons max power shots.

When it comes to skill training, one thing most people agree is that we don't want the training period of 2-4 days for your warriors. And as much as i love Xcom, i don't want Necromunda to become Xcom in any shape or form. For one thing, i would like to see gangs having access to certain skills that other gangs don't have access to, but not like Mordheim did it. For example, have Goliaths have access to more advanced strength skills that other gangs cannot access.

I think that making the skill training like in Xcom (unless you're talking about Long war 2, which is way better) would make skills stale and boring quite fast.

Yeah, skills like in Long War 2, where you simply pick what skill you want, from each of the presented ones each rank.

What they could do, was to make it like WotC, where you can pick other skills as well in your tree, after the first free one, but then it takes time.

We all agree that using the same system as Mordheim is a no go though :) Something new and interresting would be nice :)
I would also want them to give access to different skills on a pr. Gang basis, as it would make them stand out from each other more.

That is actually something that would be very faithful to the TT and would make gangs play vastly differently: have some skill trees/sections/whatever be only available for certain gangs that specialize in those skills.

Not only the differences on max stats like in Mordheim (which is actually something good. Don't expect a Goliath hit as brutally hard as a Delaque), but also certain skills be completely unavailable to certain gangs.

But how the skill learning should be executed, is something i don't have the answer for. The Xcom 2 WotC sounds quite solid: get the first skill for free to have access to the others of your choosing later is something i can get behind, but at the same time i liked the whole "get a little bit of Ballistic skill, agility and alertness skills".

They should deffinatly keep the stats - I know it is a lot of micromanagement, but it is one of the reasons why I have over 600 hours in Mordheim!

They need to look into % scaling - skills could be based off a certain stat (or even two) for damage, duration, effects and so on, which would synergize well with the ability points.

This way, you can plan you character, pick optimal skills or suboptimal, because you want versatility or just feel that one skill is worth it, even if it doesn't match the stats perfectly.

All in all, they can do SO much more! :)

I also like how stats are used, but another user also brought up the fact that this stat system brings a stale meta of survival builds and min-maxing, which is a fair point and quite true. It's hard to find a good system, but i have to say that the Mordheim one still works and it's very solid, and i kinda like the whole "thinking ahead of time and build a character from the very start". For example, my prevalent of assasin builds with Skaven (going for high crit chance).

About the scaling of skills according to stats is something i kinda like, but at the same time can be a bit tricky, since it can make certain skills a bit broken. If worked properly, skill scaling can be extremely nice when it comes to specialize your guys. For example, imagine that you decide to make a tanky guy and invest his physical points into Toughness and so he deals barely any damage, so you make him learn a skill that adds a little bit of damage based of his weapon skill, for example.

As well, since we are talking about scaling too, i kinda wish they get rid of weapon damage scaling with ballistic skill, and i want to explain why: i really hope they beef up damage for ranged weapons in Necromunda since a lot of said weapons are terribly brutal when it comes to the damage (Las guns, Bolters, plasma weapons...). I not only want differences between them as how they feel when you play (for example, you can only shoot in melee using pistols), but also in damage since in Mordheim most weapons felt a bit same-y (not talking in general, but in type of weapon. For example, one handed weapons, gundpower weapons...).

What i mean, is that they basically you start with shoddy and bad gear and you eventually work up to get good weapons, not only when it comes to the quality like in Mordheim. For example, your gang starts with some swords, pistols, stubbers and maybe a heavy stubber, and eventually you get something as brutal as a powerfist or a chainsword, a LasGun or an Autocannon, that are basically better than the previous gear you had.

There is so much to do and to work with with the basis set in Mordheim that i can't wait to see what they might be cooking

@game-knight said in Gameplay and Gang speculation video:

In regards to the skill training, I actually think a system like XCOM 2 would be be preferable over the BB2, it would reduce the randomness and give the player control over how the character was built. What I think will be needed is to keep some skills away from some gangers, thus making them specialized in their field. Or at least have some skills that required a certain class to pick.

I'd rather they stick to the TT like BB2 did. So basically you don't really want to play Necromunda. As its TT system worked a lot like Blood Bowls TT.

I would rather have this game closer to a simulator of the TT like Blood Bowl and Blood Bowl 2 try to do.

And it wasn't completely random, it was random only in where you got an ability point, or were able to choose from the standard lists for the character. Otherwise, you picked.

last edited by Anguloke

@anguloke I think you are misremembering some things.

When a character got eniugh experience to advance, you would roll on a table with 2d6. You could then get stat increases or skills on 2, 10-11 and 12.

2 you could pick any skill table, and eolled a random skill
10-11 you could pick standard, and rolled a random skill
12 was same as 2

Now I'm all for sticking as closely to the TT, but video games are different. A system like this would be extremely frustrating as you had no chance to plan out a character and were left to RNGsus, whom a lot of people dislike!! I can't remember how manytimes Mordheims to hit system got under fire since release... Like insanely...

So I don'thope they make it as the TT, but keep control in the hands of the player (thus the added cost mechanic in Mordheim and training time)

@game-knight said in Gameplay and Gang speculation video:

@anguloke I think you are misremembering some things.

You rolled when you leveled, if you got a stat roll you did not have to take it, you could go to the skill tables. If you rolled a certain roll you could choose off the non-standard skill lists.

No you did not roll randomly on the skill tables. YOU are misremembering.

"There are several types of skill and each has a separate list. You may not choose the same skill twice"

Each class or ganger type had certain lists it could use and couldn't. Sometimes on the initial roll you were allowed to roll on lists you weren't normally allowed to.

And funny how you say training time adds a factor to managing a Gang, but you don't think to have to deal with not being able to perfectly min max isn't something to manage.

Now I'm all for sticking as closely to the TT, but video games are different.

No, not all of them are different.

A system like this would be extremely frustrating as you had no chance to plan out a character and were left to RNGsus, whom a lot of people dislike!! I can't remember how manytimes Mordheims to hit system got under fire since release... Like insanely...

You have no argument to claim it would be any more frustrating in the video game than the TT. It isn't frustrating at all in BB2 or the TT version of any of the games.

So basically again, you really don't want to play Necromunda clearly.

@anguloke

You're remembering it wrong, go look at the rulebook, page 87 - (forgot 3-4 is standard skill too, sorry) - it specifically says that if you rolled a stat, you could increase that stat, but if it is at it's max, you can increase another stat instead, no mention of being able to pick a skill instead - actually, nowhere does it say you get to pick a skill, it is all random (quote below for reference)

I'm claiming that in Necromunda you don't get to pick your skills - you do in Blood Bowl and you do in Mordheim. If they want to go with random skills, it's fine by me, I'll play along, but I would rather have some degree of control.

Quote:
NEW SKILLS
There are seven types of skill and each has its own
separate table: Agility, Combat, Ferocity, Muscle,
Shooting, Stealth and Techno. If you refer to these
tables you’ll see that each offers six different skills.
The type of skill that a fighter can have is restricted by
the gang’s House and whether the fighter is a juve,
ganger, heavy or leader. For example, Goliath juves
can only take Muscle and Ferocity skills, Goliath
gangers can take Muscle, Ferocity and Combat skills
and so on. These restriction are indicated on the Skill
tables on page 88.

On the roll of a 2 or 12 the fighter can ignore the
normal restrictions for his House or type, and select
from any of the Skill tables.
To determine a new skill for a fighter, pick the type of
skill you want from those available, then roll a D6 to
determine which skill has been learned. If you roll a
skill that the fighter already has or that he is not
allowed to take for any reason, you may pick any skill
of that type.

Example: A player rolls a 3 indicating a new skill for
a Goliath juve. Referring to the Skill tables he finds
that he may choose between Muscle or Ferocity
skills. He decides to take a Muscle skill and then
rolls a D6, scoring a 3. Muscle skill number 3 is
‘Crushing Blow’. This is noted against the fighter’s
other details on the gang roster.

CHARACTERISTIC INCREASE
An Advance roll of 5-9 will increase one of a fighter’s
characteristics. For example a roll of 7 increases
either Initiative or Leadership. Roll a D6 to see which
of the two characteristic increases applies. To
continue our example, a roll of 1-3 means the fighter
has gained +1 Initiative and a roll of 4-6 indicates he
has gained +1 Leadership.

However, characteristics may not be increased
beyond maximum limits as shown on the
characteristic profile below. If one of the two
characteristics indicated by the advance roll has
already reached its maximum level, you must take the
other. If both have already been taken to their
maximum level, you may choose to increase any
other permitted characteristic by +1 instead.

I'm not remembering it wrong, that is basically exactly how I stated it. That is not random. You DO NOT roll the skills on the lists.

To quote from what you just posted, "To determine a new skill for a fighter, pick the type of skill you want from those available,"

So even what you quoted doesn't support you. Again all the rolls determined is whether you got to get an stat increase, or if you could choose off a table you weren't normally allowed to. You still CHOOSE once that was determined. That is not random skill generation no matter how many times you repeat that lie.

It even stated that each type had certain list. #facepalm did you even bother to read what you posted?

And personally, I'd like to play Necromunda. Not sure what game you want to play. The Mordheim adaptation while enjoyable wasn't Mordheim anymore. And when you look at the success of BB2 in comparison, clearly fans are more interested in more faithful adaptations.

last edited by Anguloke

@anguloke said in Gameplay and Gang speculation video:

I'm not remembering it wrong, that is basically exactly how I stated it. That is not random. You DO NOT roll the skills on the lists.

To quote from what you just posted, "To determine a new skill for a fighter, pick the type of skill you want from those available,"

So even what you quoted doesn't support you. Again all the rolls determined is whether you got to get an stat increase, or if you could choose off a table you weren't normally allowed to. You still CHOOSE once that was determined. That is not random skill generation no matter how many times you repeat that lie.

It even stated that each type had certain list. #facepalm did you even bother to read what you posted?

And personally, I'd like to play Necromunda. Not sure what game you want to play. The Mordheim adaptation while enjoyable wasn't Mordheim anymore. And when you look at the success of BB2 in comparison, clearly fans are more interested in more faithful adaptations.

I guess if you just pick whatever you want to read and read it as you want to read it, I can see it is difficult to understand. Let me spell it out in another quote:

" To determine a new skill for a fighter, pick the type of
skill
you want from those available, then roll a D6 to
determine which skill has been learned
. "

Reference: rulebook

Explanation:
TYPE of skill is the TREE of which you want to learn a skill in - this is limited unless you roll a 2 or 12
You then ROLL on the table and get one of 6 skills! If you get a skill you already have, you reroll - this is random.

I would like to play a better version of Necromunda - and I feel I got that with Mordheim.

last edited by Game kNight

Woah, quite a discussion.

Still, Gameknight has a point: The rules work like that in all editions of the game and in a videogame having such important things decided randomly will definetly be frustrating for some and a no go for others. Like i said previously, current levelup system is solid and works nicely, but the skill learning has to be reworked.

@game-knight said in Gameplay and Gang speculation video:

Now I'm all for sticking as closely to the TT, but video games are different.

Going to have to disagree even if he's wrong on the rule, TT and video games don't have to be different.

I want to play Necromunda. Not a far off adaptation, but Necromunda. When I play Blood Bowl 2 I get to play Blood Bowl.

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