Black Spiral Dancers? (vtmb possible spoilers)

So in vtmb, if you instal the unoffical patch it turns out that the creators wanted a bad-guy ending, with the sabbat and stuff.

I wanted to start a discussion on whether you guys will think they will implement something similiar for Werewolf the Apocalypse. I think a secret Spiral ending would be really interesting! From what little we do know about the game, you will be fighting for nature the entire time, but the idea of secretly sabotaging the efforts, lowkey causing havoc among your ranks. That seems seriously interesting! Maybe like an extra-challenging gameplay route perhaps?

The Black Spiral Dancers make the Sabbat look like a bunch of school children.

As much of a fan as I am of BSD, I doubt we will see this.

I would LOVE to see the BSD and Pentex play a large role in the game, however.

@ParanoidTrout said in Black Spiral Dancers? (vtmb possible spoilers):

I wanted to start a discussion on whether you guys will think they will implement something similiar for Werewolf the Apocalypse. I think a secret Spiral ending would be really interesting! From what little we do know about the game, you will be fighting for nature the entire time, but the idea of secretly sabotaging the efforts, lowkey causing havoc among your ranks. That seems seriously interesting! Maybe like an extra-challenging gameplay route perhaps?

There's nothing low-key about Black Spiral Dancers... they're among the least subtle threats in the old WoD universe. Their bread and butter was mutation, insanity, rape and incest... often all at once. I'm sure you could do all manner of dark horror involving them, but I'm guessing they don't want to go that far with this product.. at best I'd expect them to be less-than-fleshed-out antagonists.

I wouldn't expect them to go deep on Pentex either since it can be used as a less disturbing antagonist by simply focusing on its more overt schemes like poisoning the earth and all living things, vivisection of garou, etc etc... instead of its darker schemes like spreading despair and misery by promoting bane possession of children so they'll murder their parents and playmates and then melt from the inside over time.

As mentioned by VoodooMike I don't think that BSD would make for very good playable characters. Now I understand that playing an evil character can be interesting, and often is, but I think that playing a BSD correctly would take things way, way off the map. Not to mention that there should be possibilities to play a Werewolf fighting for Gaia who is by most accounts, well, evil or very dark in personality.

Ah good point. There are a lot of dark topics in games now a days, but there are lines that should never be crossed. Like rampant children murder, that would go too far.
And I bet there would be a werewolf who could easily be considered evil, like a Red Talon

last edited by ParanoidTrout

@VoodooMike
Not anymore true than to say Garou are the least subtle thing in the game.

Plenty of BSD's are crafty and manipulative and not the typical "bloodthirsty rape outrageously crazy" BSD.

They really aren't just that, in fact I'd say that's a tiny minority of the tribe. BSD's are like the Sith to Jedi.

They are the dark mirror image of the garou. BSD's can be noble, prideful, intelligent, witty and persuasive.

BSD's are an amazing villain type and far from being the least subtle (Zmei, Nexus Crawler and a plethora of banes come to mind as far less subtle).

No why many believe they aren't subtle is so many GM's out there ignore most of the fluff and follow more of a D&D path making BSD's just a higher level mob to beat up on. Which isn't a wrong way to play but they miss out on so much by ignoring that if BSD's were not subtle, they would have died out a long time ago.

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