Things I hope they don't bring from their Mordheim

@vile-beggar said in Things I hope they don't bring from their Mordheim:

Please remember that for some of us here it wasn't just "their Mordheim", it was "our Mordheim", each and every aspect of which we hold dear. It's so heartbreaking to even think of the funniest jump/climb mechanic removed entirely. I and those who share my opinion would love to see those fun and cruel mechanics expanded even further, not reverted. Beautiful design, interesting combat mechanics and the unforgiving but fun and thrilling randomness of the City of the Damned (climbing, crits, injuries etc.) - this is what made your game special.

For me, the funniest parts where when enemies climbed somewhere and weren't incapable of jumping down. Or when big enemies tried to go through doorways and ended being stuck.

@vile-beggar There's always room for refinement.

Necromunda has something that makes certain things less viable, verticality. While Mordhiem had different elevations, they weren't all that important. A difference of 3 floors, maybe, and you're almost always scaling the side of a wall.

There's a difference here, Necromunda is a city stacked on top of a city, on top of another city, and you're in the city that's been pushed below the surface by the weight of the cities stacked on top. Thusly, the number of potential falls dramatically increases, as does its deadliness. So, the randomness of falling is going to mean something different. On Mordhiem it generally means a laugh or a groan as your guy tries and fails to scurry up a wall. In Necromunda it will often mean falling distances that should kill you.

Then there's also ladders, they should be there, because of all the verticality. It would get old fast when your Gangers keep falling off 100 foot ladders and splatting on the ground. You really shouldn't fall off a ladder unless you're being shot.

But yes, a degree of randomness was a feature of the game. However, it needs to be adapted. Here they should look to the TT. There should be additional factors. In the TT, you get shot at near an edge you take a roll to see if you fall. That's easy to adapt. Get shot at, check to see if you fall. Get hit, take a worse chance. Have a railing, chance to fall goes way down. Have a bull charging Goliath smack you with a Power Hammer, chance to fall. Etc.

I'd like to chime in here, a bit late, but I hope that is OK.

A lot of the stuff that was put in to the old TT games was due to the design constraints and the nature of the medium (d6 dice, rulers, and generally immature kids arguing "I could totally jump that far in that situation!!!1!!" or "No way, that grenade would still totally hit you! You think shrapnel doesn't fly that far?!?!"). With the video game mechanics, a lot of that can be handled differently. Is it better? Probably, but it will certainly feel the same.

Regarding the skills and random vs planned, there's no reason it can't be both. The players playing aren't each individual ganger. If anything, the player is more the leader, ordering his subordinates. So progression and leveling up doesn't have to be completely planned by the player. However, a leader can certainly choose to order their underlings to study, practice, or focus on skillsets. So do both.

Have a certain percentage of random character development skill-ups occur without user input. These are traits that the ganger discovers they are good at, have an aptitude for, etc. Because they can be handled this way, you don't need any training time for them. They just happen.

You can also have planned skill training similar to Mordheim. Send your ganger or juve off to train in some skill, it costs financial resources, and some measure of time. You may find yourself trying to train to their strengths that they've already discovered "organically" to maximize benefits, and thus giving yourself a bit of a character arc for a guy that was collaborative story-telling between the player and the game, and not just something from the players initiative.

You can actually do the same thing even with the Mordheim skill system. In Necromunda, when you rolled, you either got attribute A or attribute B most times. You can do the same thing, but still give the player choice. Have the randomness on the random attribute gains be in the category (physical, martial, mental, etc) and then let the player pick the exact distribution (leadership, weapon skill, etc). Some attribute level-ups could be random, some planned. Maybe one random increase per level, and one planned?

Gang balancing has to go. Makes things very annoying. Especially fighting O.P. Gangs in Mordheim like undead that I didn't even have access to, also makes it horrible and un -enjoyable trying to level replacements. Made me not want to play the game.
Dice roll chance of climb was in the board Mordheim, it's not in necromunda now so I'll be looking to see that gone. Fair enough when you consider the constant fall tests.
One thing I do want to see though is a customizable SP campaign with Hive events, different types of campaign modifiers from the book. Shouldn't be too difficult to implement and would bring longevity to the game.
Also, the gangs as free dlc as part of the game. Console players get absolutely shafted constantly when you consider its buttons on Steam after a short while.

last edited by snickdesnick

Truly, i wish they put "permanent gangs" in the game so we aren't matched with a random generated gang that is around your rating but ends up being a bullshit match mainly due to level difference (specially when you have impressives). A system of permanent gangs (they start like you and they are matched against each other and they get gear, permanent injuries, etc... along the campaing) would be nice.
In the new necromunda rules they only have initiavite rolls on jumping across, jumping down and climbing a distance superior than 3". I would be ok with those tbh, but if there are ladders in the game, please no climb rolls.

I agree that persistent gangs would be cool. It's something I've missed in Mordheim. Not sure I'd be totally on board with doing away with balancing encounters entirely. If you thought the Undead were OP when you have the same type/relative strength units, imagine what it would be like if you went in with a five-man team and they brought 8 and an Impressive.

I mostly want the core mechanics of Mordheim's abstraction to stay in place. I like being able to build my characters how I want them to be built. While the Cult of the Possessed is fun, it's a real pain tossing a Mutant because he picked up an arm mutation when I'm looking for a ranged hero. If the mutation system was spread across all six warbands, I wouldn't play the game at all. If actual skills were random, then... I'd be out completely.

For me (and several other players I know) progression and devising builds is a big part of the fun, and adding randomness to the things that really should be in the player's control would turn me off completely. It would be cool if there was a mechanic like it for a Gang that was built around it, like the Cult, though. Personally, I think there's already enough RNG in this type of game without adding a layer on the strategic side as well as the tactical.

As for DLC, I don't have a problem with it. Mordheim and its DLC went on sale often enough on PSN and Steam that it wasn't really a big deal. I don't have a problem with them producing more content down the line and getting paid for it. And, just maybe, enough funding might convince them to develop Mordheim 2.

Personally, I think a customizable (or semi-customizable) single-player campaign would be a great addition. Or, maybe, convince GW to allow mods. Mordheim SCREAMED for a healthy modding community. You could have player-generated maps, warbands, units, skills, weapons... ahh, the possibilities are endless. That said, GW is notoriously protective of their IP, and I doubt they'd allow it. Still, a guy can dream.

I think some limited randomization would be good. Too much would be annoying, but I do understand people's point about how part of what made these games fun is that things don't always go like you'd think. Not sure how that would translate to game mechanics.

One way is while I agree Skills and Perks should be player controlled, they can randomize some parts. For example, when you recruit a new ganger it'd be better to have their stats randomized rather than every new recruit being the same. It makes sense, people have different skills and talents. But more over I think it would give your gang more personality while still allowing you to control their progress.

Stuff like that would be cool. Randomly falling off ladders, not so much.

@kindler said in Things I hope they don't bring from their Mordheim:

Personally, I think a customizable (or semi-customizable) single-player campaign would be a great addition. Or, maybe, convince GW to allow mods. Mordheim SCREAMED for a healthy modding community. You could have player-generated maps, warbands, units, skills, weapons... ahh, the possibilities are endless. That said, GW is notoriously protective of their IP, and I doubt they'd allow it. Still, a guy can dream.

Talking about player created maps etc it can be done without a modding community and with GW backing as it occurs in the new Space Hulk game (Space Hulk Tactics) with the ability to create your own maps/ design your own missions. Just a thought 🙂

@glarghface said in Things I hope they don't bring from their Mordheim:

In the new necromunda rules they only have initiavite rolls on jumping across, jumping down and climbing a distance superior than 3". I would be ok with those tbh, but if there are ladders in the game, please no climb rolls.

So maybe taking the "Go for it" sprint mechanic in Blood Bowl 2 and using it for the ladders in Necromunda. Or maybe some sort of agility rolls characteristic i.e Esher better at moving up ladders jumping etc than say the more muscle-bound heavier Goliaths?

@sheds-on-fire said in Things I hope they don't bring from their Mordheim:

@glarghface said in Things I hope they don't bring from their Mordheim:

In the new necromunda rules they only have initiavite rolls on jumping across, jumping down and climbing a distance superior than 3". I would be ok with those tbh, but if there are ladders in the game, please no climb rolls.

So maybe taking the "Go for it" sprint mechanic in Blood Bowl 2 and using it for the ladders in Necromunda. Or maybe some sort of agility rolls characteristic i.e Esher better at moving up ladders jumping etc than say the more muscle-bound heavier Goliaths?

TBH, Escher already have better agility than all the other houses and it's reflected in their in game stats in tabletop, having greater movement range (5" compared to all others with 4") and much higher initiative (used for climbing tests, jumping tests, evading grapples, dodging and all things involving agility)

I gathered that, so I assume that it would be reflected in the Video Game version?

I hope so. Stat differences in Necromunda are a must have in the same way they were in Mordheim, both with base stats and the stat cap.

As well, i kinda want that they give us ladders and those are a 100% success climb test compared to the other climb/jump tests that are agility/initiative based.