Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?
  • With this rule on, it's impossible to play as Halflings.
    like this:

    • 2 Treemen - 240k
    • 10 Halflings - 300k
    • 1 Re-roll - 60k

    Total 600k

    or this:

    • 2 Treemen - 240k
    • 11 Halflings - 330k
    • 2 Re-rolls - 120k
    • 4 Fan Factor - 40k
    • 1 Cheerleader - 10k
    • 1 Assistant Coach - 10k

    Total 750k

    Without inducement, poor flings stand NO CHANCE AT ALL. Why should anyone bother playing with them?

  • There's been some speculation around Stunty teams being able to roster inducements.

    We won't know until LE, but yeah Stunty teams are a bit borked by current rules.

  • Community Manager

    Halflings will get +300TV added to the Matchmaking calculation. Goblins +150. Only in matchmaking.

    It should help them getting good matchups. We'll study the data gathered after the release of Legendary and see if we're satisfied with the results.

  • @Netheos So, in theory, if we had a TV1000 Halfling and a TV1000 Human team getting matched against each other, the Halfling would receive 300k petty cash for the inducement phase?

  • Community Manager

    @SirIronclad said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @Netheos So, in theory, if we had a TV1000 Halfling and a TV1000 Human team getting matched against each other, the Halfling would receive 300k petty cash for the inducement phase?

    No, the added TV is only for matchmaking. Halflings would get no petty cash in your example. But they're more likely to be paired with a team at 1300TV, meaning they would get approximately 300k in inducements most of the time.

    Edit: Correction

    last edited by Netheos
  • @Netheos Why would Halflings get 100k petty cash at even TV, then?

  • Community Manager

    @SirIronclad said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @Netheos Why would Halflings get 100k petty cash at even TV, then?

    That's me reading "1100" instead of "1000" in your text for the TV of the human team :p

    My bad sorry, they wouldn't get any petty cash at even TV.

  • @Netheos So there's no actual change in TV for matchmaking? It's just that the matchmaking system will try to match TV1000 with TV1300 for Halflings, instead of even TV?

    last edited by Isarnwolf
  • Community Manager

    @SirIronclad said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @Netheos So there's no actual change in TV for matchmaking? It's just that the matchmaking system will try to match TV1000 with TV1300 for Halflings, instead of even TV?

    Exactly.

    Edit: Actually it's the opposite. See below.

    last edited by Netheos
  • @Netheos I feel like that'll backfire more than anything. Being down in TV is never fun, especially not when you're AV6 and the amount of Block, Tackle and Mighty Blow increases drastically. But who knows, maybe it'll work. Very skeptical personally, though.

    last edited by Isarnwolf
  • Community Manager

    @SirIronclad said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @Netheos I feel like that'll backfire more than anything. Playing up TV is never fun, especially not when you're AV6 and the amount of Block, Tackle and Mighty Blow increases drastically. But who knows, maybe it'll work. Very skeptical personally, though.

    Ok there is a misunderstanding again.

    The game will do its best to pair 1000TV halfling with 1300TV teams. The goal is to have them playing down in TV, as much as possible.

  • @Netheos I clarified my wording. Basically the niche that Halflings should have is that they mostly play against fresh rookie teams. That way you can at least have some fun with them during the season. And whoever ends up getting the best record with them will then get his team brutally murdered in the playoffs.

    Halflings want inducements, yes. But making it so they get skewed match-ups against HIGHER TV teams will just lead to massacres. Just think about all the Dwarves that will be in the ladder when LE comes out and just how big a difference 300k TV can make! It's pretty much a guarantee that the Halfling team will be getting absolutely smashed by mass Tackleblock and Mighty Blow at that point.

    last edited by Isarnwolf
  • They won't nessecarily get matched up againts high tv teams, though. If their tv is only 700 they most likely go against 1000 tv teams (at least that's what i think will happen if i understand this correctly).

  • @Netheos said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    Edit: Actually it's the opposite. See below.

    See what? Something's wrong with this thread, lol.

  • @Jilaag But as soon as we hit 1000TV+ that's already bad for Halflings.

  • @SirIronclad True, true. I do see the issue. Though with the current matchmaking system in place for BB2, i have a hard time seeing a better solution (besides maybe being able to roster inducements ofc).

    last edited by Jilaag
  • All these simplistic and arbitrary slap-patches on MM problems are like watching a Three Stooges movie... seriously.

  • @Netheos said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @SirIronclad said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @Netheos I feel like that'll backfire more than anything. Playing up TV is never fun, especially not when you're AV6 and the amount of Block, Tackle and Mighty Blow increases drastically. But who knows, maybe it'll work. Very skeptical personally, though.

    Ok there is a misunderstanding again.

    The game will do its best to pair 1000TV halfling with 1300TV teams. The goal is to have them playing down in TV, as much as possible.

    That's a disaster.

    300TV is 6 Blocks, 4 Tackles, 3 Mighty Blows and 2 Pilling ons...

    And what about local leagues? All of the AI opponents start at 1000~1100ish. Or those private online leagues where everyone starts a fresh team?

    The Bank rule from plasmoid's CRP+(Bank: At the start of any game, all cash above 150K is automatically treated as Petty Cash. Petty Cash does not have to be spent, but does increase TV.) should not have implemented at all. It prevents everyone upgrading their stadiums more than lv2 and make that 'save 500k' achievement impossible. Plus spiral expenses it's a HUUUUGE handicap. And now It even becomes a game changer?!

    (and I don't like the human catcher change and the previous orc blitzer change also from plasmoid's CRP+ BTW : P)

    Please seriously consider making it at least optional.

    last edited by Keith Mo
  • @Keith-Mo said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @Netheos said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @SirIronclad said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @Netheos I feel like that'll backfire more than anything. Playing up TV is never fun, especially not when you're AV6 and the amount of Block, Tackle and Mighty Blow increases drastically. But who knows, maybe it'll work. Very skeptical personally, though.

    Ok there is a misunderstanding again.

    The game will do its best to pair 1000TV halfling with 1300TV teams. The goal is to have them playing down in TV, as much as possible.

    That's a disaster.

    300TV is 6 Blocks, 4 Tackles, 3 Mighty Blows and 2 Pilling ons...

    And what about local leagues? All of the AI opponents start at 1000~1100ish. Or those private online leagues where everyone starts a fresh team?

    The Bank rule from plasmoid's CRP+(Bank: At the start of any game, all cash above 150K is automatically treated as Petty Cash. Petty Cash does not have to be spent, but does increase TV.) should not have implemented at all. It prevents everyone upgrading their stadiums more than lv2 and make that 'save 500k' achievement impossible. Plus spiral expenses it's a HUUUUGE handicap. And now It even becomes a game changer?!

    (and I don't like the human catcher change and the previous orc blitzer change also from plasmoid's CRP+ BTW : P)

    Please seriously consider making it at least optional.

    I've asked elsewhere they allow it to be toggled off for solo player - achievments and fancy big stadiums are the bread and butter of solo play not online multiplayer. I'm not fan of spiralling expenses (in fact I detest it) but high cash adding to TV has its place in BB IMO.

    Still I'm with the others here in they're gonna get massacred 300k down Vs bashy teams but I guess they always were gonna anyway lol - guess we will be looking at Puggy and Willow to try and ideally soak up the abuse with the inducements haha. As for the playoffs I don't think we will even see a Halflings team in them anyway, there's usually 16 spots - even with no more than one team per race qualification rule it's unlikely we will see low tier teens like Halflings and Ogres get through esp as it's more rewarding to play more games (something you gotta dread if your usually 300k down Vs fattened up bashy teams.)

  • Community Manager

    Keep in mind it only affects multiplayer ladder competitions. As explained before, we'll gather data and more feedback about many changes introduced in LE before tweaking anything further.

  • @Netheos Well, this will be an interesting ride.

  • @Netheos said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    Keep in mind it only affects multiplayer ladder competitions. As explained before, we'll gather data and more feedback about many changes introduced in LE before tweaking anything further.

    I like how you imply that anything you guys do is data-driven. If PR doesn't work out for you there's a real future for you in comdey.

  • @SirIronclad I don't see your problem with fling-MM. Having inducements is the most important thing when playing halflings. +300 is perfect.

    @Netheos For me this sounds perfect and I'm totally looking forward to surprising some of those "CPOMB chaos"-noobs how good flings can actually be.

  • It would be so much easier if you just stopped being stubborn about the bank rule not being a broken pile of horse manure.

    last edited by Kurgol
  • So does this mean a 1k TV Halfling team has a matchmaking bracket of 800-1800, or does it still cap at 500 difference, so they matchmake between 800-1500?

    edit - after some discussion and realising this will be how TV+ works too, in reality it means they will still match against teams within 500TV of them, but with TV+ records as if they were 1300TV. So in essence they will just be playing with the same TV brackets as all current teams, but are just more likely to be playing against the better coaches. Which feels like (assuming your belief of how TV+ ensures fair games) you are just forcing halflings to play against better coaches, within the 'fair' 500 TV bracket. Surely this means Halflings will essentially be handicapped by always playing better coaches?

    last edited by JamToast
  • @JamToast said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    edit - after some discussion and realising this will be how TV+ works too, in reality it means they will still match against teams within 500TV of them, but with TV+ records as if they were 1300TV. So in essence they will just be playing with the same TV brackets as all current teams, but are just more likely to be playing against the better coaches. Which feels like (assuming your belief of how TV+ ensures fair games) you are just forcing halflings to play against better coaches, within the 'fair' 500 TV bracket. Surely this means Halflings will essentially be handicapped by always playing better coaches?

    The idea of tacking 300 TV onto halflings is basically totally nonsensical regardless of the system in place. Under TVPlus matchmaking (which, I'll point out, doesn't guarantee fair matches.. that's full TVPlus... using it just for MM just creates better matches, but it can't balance them beyond that) halfling teams will end up matched with the same people regardless of what you tack on or don't, because their zsum will go down as they lose, making their TVPlus rating compensate for any random additions you throw onto it, over time at least. Under straight TV matching it'd just make them lose more than they already lose, and it'd never be cancelled out.

    The idea that halflings do better when playing higher teams is total crap... it's one of those urban legends that the non-data people cling to like money. The actual data from BB1 and FUMBBL contradicts it very directly - like almost every roster they do worse when they're playing against higher TV teams than themselves. Koadah recently posted the complete data from FUMBBL B, and if we look at halfling teams under CRP and their win rate plotted against tv advantage (their TV minus the other guy's TV) we see:

    Halfling Win Rates by TV advantage

    ...the completely typical trend of doing better the less of a TV disadvantage halfling teams have, or the greater the advantage they have. So, whatever they're basing this new idea on it sure and shit isn't data.

  • @VoodooMike Yeah, that is basically what I was thinking. Essentially they are just having their start gimped. Stunty teams have a harder time than others. So lets ensure they have a harder start too. Can't possibly go wrong.

    Halflings do better when teams DONT have the skills (or more of the skills) to demolish them. Much like every other team in the game, shockingly.

  • Please please please listen to VoodooMike(and presumably Dode) on this matter. There is no reason to even trial this. Absolutely nonsensical idea.

    last edited by JimmyFantastic
  • @JimmyFantastic lol...just noticed your picture.

  • @JohnnyFeyev said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

    @JimmyFantastic lol...just noticed your picture.

    Dode uses a dog now so Brad is up for grabs.

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