Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?

@Netheos Well, this will be an interesting ride.

@Netheos said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

Keep in mind it only affects multiplayer ladder competitions. As explained before, we'll gather data and more feedback about many changes introduced in LE before tweaking anything further.

I like how you imply that anything you guys do is data-driven. If PR doesn't work out for you there's a real future for you in comdey.

@SirIronclad I don't see your problem with fling-MM. Having inducements is the most important thing when playing halflings. +300 is perfect.

@Netheos For me this sounds perfect and I'm totally looking forward to surprising some of those "CPOMB chaos"-noobs how good flings can actually be.

It would be so much easier if you just stopped being stubborn about the bank rule not being a broken pile of horse manure.

last edited by Kurgol

So does this mean a 1k TV Halfling team has a matchmaking bracket of 800-1800, or does it still cap at 500 difference, so they matchmake between 800-1500?

edit - after some discussion and realising this will be how TV+ works too, in reality it means they will still match against teams within 500TV of them, but with TV+ records as if they were 1300TV. So in essence they will just be playing with the same TV brackets as all current teams, but are just more likely to be playing against the better coaches. Which feels like (assuming your belief of how TV+ ensures fair games) you are just forcing halflings to play against better coaches, within the 'fair' 500 TV bracket. Surely this means Halflings will essentially be handicapped by always playing better coaches?

last edited by JamToast

@JamToast said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

edit - after some discussion and realising this will be how TV+ works too, in reality it means they will still match against teams within 500TV of them, but with TV+ records as if they were 1300TV. So in essence they will just be playing with the same TV brackets as all current teams, but are just more likely to be playing against the better coaches. Which feels like (assuming your belief of how TV+ ensures fair games) you are just forcing halflings to play against better coaches, within the 'fair' 500 TV bracket. Surely this means Halflings will essentially be handicapped by always playing better coaches?

The idea of tacking 300 TV onto halflings is basically totally nonsensical regardless of the system in place. Under TVPlus matchmaking (which, I'll point out, doesn't guarantee fair matches.. that's full TVPlus... using it just for MM just creates better matches, but it can't balance them beyond that) halfling teams will end up matched with the same people regardless of what you tack on or don't, because their zsum will go down as they lose, making their TVPlus rating compensate for any random additions you throw onto it, over time at least. Under straight TV matching it'd just make them lose more than they already lose, and it'd never be cancelled out.

The idea that halflings do better when playing higher teams is total crap... it's one of those urban legends that the non-data people cling to like money. The actual data from BB1 and FUMBBL contradicts it very directly - like almost every roster they do worse when they're playing against higher TV teams than themselves. Koadah recently posted the complete data from FUMBBL B, and if we look at halfling teams under CRP and their win rate plotted against tv advantage (their TV minus the other guy's TV) we see:

Halfling Win Rates by TV advantage

...the completely typical trend of doing better the less of a TV disadvantage halfling teams have, or the greater the advantage they have. So, whatever they're basing this new idea on it sure and shit isn't data.

@VoodooMike Yeah, that is basically what I was thinking. Essentially they are just having their start gimped. Stunty teams have a harder time than others. So lets ensure they have a harder start too. Can't possibly go wrong.

Halflings do better when teams DONT have the skills (or more of the skills) to demolish them. Much like every other team in the game, shockingly.

Please please please listen to VoodooMike(and presumably Dode) on this matter. There is no reason to even trial this. Absolutely nonsensical idea.

last edited by JimmyFantastic

@JimmyFantastic lol...just noticed your picture.

@JohnnyFeyev said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

@JimmyFantastic lol...just noticed your picture.

Dode uses a dog now so Brad is up for grabs.

Would not it be smarter to just give an extra 300K to the flings no matter the team they are facing on top of the inducement the tv difference offers? At least give an opportunity to stunty coach to have fun.

Is it so hard to fix the damn idiotic bank rule?

@Kurgol said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

it would be so much easier if you just stopped being stubborn about the bank rule not being a broken pile of horse manure.

+1 to this

I actually like the bank rule as it is in the game... I think its fun seeing in blood bowl 2 more of the inducements being used compared to in blood bowl 1 where everyone was afraid of sponsoring inducements for their opponents.

I do acknowledge some of the draw backs:

  1. if people spend their bank while under 150k or more than 150k they're inflating their TV and their opponent has to unjustly deal with it
  2. it is hard to rebuild a team that takes on a lot of injuries (particularly for teams that have expensive players).

2 is harder to answer to but if you have 150k then you'll at least be able to get at least one of the most expensive pieces and supplement your team with loners if you have to. Overall your TV goes down so I feel like this plays better for match making than it does in scheduled league, and right now I think there's a lot more match making than league play in BB2. I don't really have anything to contribute towards that.

For 1 though I do have a thought. What if the general idea is if you use any of your 150k that is not part of your petty cash tv then you are also going to inflate the FAME of your opponent... The idea in lore is everybody loves to cheer for the underdog. Something along the lines of every 50k is +1 fame to your opponent, that way you can spend up to 40k just to get an inducement without penalty.

@don_ said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

I actually like the bank rule as it is in the game... I think its fun seeing in blood bowl 2 more of the inducements being used compared to in blood bowl 1 where everyone was afraid of sponsoring inducements for their opponents.

I do acknowledge some of the draw backs:

  1. if people spend their bank while under 150k or more than 150k they're inflating their TV and their opponent has to unjustly deal with it

The cash spent in inducements by the overdog is given to the underdog in Legendary, up to 150k. It should fix this issue.

Sounds good. Of course now it sounds like the Underdog can still drop in cash and get extra inducements without opponent countering. So ¯_(ツ)_/¯

the 150k rule dont matter to me much either way

but halflings should get money either way or have match making so that a 1300 halfling goes against 1000 tv guys more often they dont get the inducements they love but have new halfer team against a developed team is suicide trust me im slaughtering them constantly in beta

With the Legendary Edition and the 50 Starplayers its time for a new kind of Match Making at least to stop that kind of Match Making via Team Value wich never was a good idea.
To Simulate League Play, Match Making should be be handled with the number of Matches both Teams have played.
For Example If Team A has played 30 Games it should only Match to a Team that has + - 10% the same Numbers of Games played. In this Example to a Team which has between 27 - 33 Games played.
In Addition, there is still a Plague by a lot of Players that will quit the Match immediatly when the Apo is used or it looks they may not win a game - there should be an option to quit a Matched Team if the Opponent has quit more than 10% or 20% of his games before the End of a Match without Penalty. This should Lead also to more Matches played till the End of Game.
Also it should solve the Problem with this Cheated Teams where a player Starts with 4 Chaos Warriors at Level 5-6 and 7 Goats without any Skills.

last edited by Sir_Twist

@Sir_Twist said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

To Simulate League Play, Match Making should be be handled with the number of Matches both Teams have played.
For Example If Team A has played 30 Games it should only Match to a Team that has + - 10% the same Numbers of Games played. In this Example to a Team which has between 27 - 33 Games played.

That doesn't simulated league play particularly well at all. In our long-term league it absolutely is not a filter by matches played, but a filter by performance. We have short-lived teams which are flying high and old teams which are at the other end of the spectrum.

Also it should solve the Problem with this Cheated Teams where a player Starts with 4 Chaos Warriors at Level 5-6 and 7 Goats without any Skills.

How is this a cheat? It's an exploitation of a poor TV-matching system, but it's not a cheat.