Take Off Ammo Count from HUD (Suggestion) [EDIT: Add HUD edits in Settings]

I made this suggestion before during Alpha, and I'll say it again that the Developers should take off the HUD ability to see how many bullets you currently have in a magazine and only show how many magazines you have. I believe the current HUD system makes reloading more obvious with less guess work, so there is no strategy in reloading.

People can still play well seeing how there are still a lot of players in both INS and DOI who can compensate over not knowing how many bullets they have left in a magazine.

What do you guys think? I'll be honest that I've played INS and DOI for 600hrs in total, so I sort of memerised when are appropriate times to reload with many of the weapons both games had. Just think INS:Sandstorm makes the small things more casual and easy, building up to be a more casual version.

[EDIT]: Since I'm seeing people both against and supportive of the new HUD on showing ammo count, I suggest that there should be an option to edit the HUD itself for any player in Settings so everyone doesn't have to conform to only one HUD design and what the HUD shows, but there shouldn't be too much a player can edit with their HUD like with CS:GO. Only size, ammo count vs no ammo count, on vs off, and opacity.

last edited by BlueMouse

highly agree lol make lets make everyone learn the OG way

I have mixed feelings about this. I like how there isn't a specific number displayed for ammo, but the bar does still give you pretty granular information about remaining ammo. It might be a little too specific about remaining ammo.

In real life you can tell about how much ammo you have left simply by weight. It won't let you differentiate between, say, 3 or 5 rounds, but ammo remaining certainly isn't a total mystery. And some magazines have features to allow you to see remaining ammo, such as the windowed P-MAGs or the translucent mags the G-36 uses.

Yah ... I've been blown up more often than shot in co-op. Much more often. I also feel the AI wins rounds about 75% of the time, and it doesn't seem like it's because they're super great soldiers. I think it's because the humans just get blown up so damn much 😛

In real life, most magazines have perforated indents on their backsides to visually inspect the amount of ammo left in the a magazine so it's not really a guessing game unless you don't have time to look at it in during combat (which in most modern cases, you do). Plus is also nice to actually see how much ammo is left instead of fumbling around which partial mag had the highest capacity like in old school INS. (this isn't a problem now since the highest capacity mag is your next consecutive reload)

I don't disagree with your suggestion and it would be nice to remove the magazine capacities when reloading. However a cool feature would be that the ammo count should be displayed when inspecting your ammo holding the reload key; as if you were looking for yourself.

last edited by imacookie

The game already has the feature of checking your magazines by holding R. Try it.
I'm assuming the current system is in place to simulate the weight of each mag. You don't know the exact number of rounds in your magazine, just an approixmation, but you do know how many mags you have, similar to checking their weight.

last edited by TheSquirrel

@thesquirrel That's not the point, the point is that it's a permanent feature of the HUD, and anyone playing INS:S will depend on watching the HUD on when to reload. Sure there is an option to hide the HUD, but it'll become a habit for everyone to go the easy way checking the HUD rather than keeping track of how much you shoot and when to reload.

@imacookie Yeah, I do understand that there are certain models of magazines that let you see through itself to see how much you have (MK18's and Makarov's mag slightly), but almost all of the magazines are bakelite or metal, so there is no reliable way to tell how many bullets you have just by looking, and it's not like you can tell if the magazine weighs lighter since it's a game.

I believe you are referencing Rising Storm's system of checking how much ammo you have in a magazine. I play RS2, and I love this feature, but I'm thinking that's RS's special feature that seperates themselves from other hardcore games. I don't think NWI wants to copy that idea for the sake of staying who they are.

You know, maybe they should play around with the sound effects of the gun shooting. I think the mechanism sounds more hollow as the magazine gets empty. Sort of like Sombra's SMG as it runs out of ammo.

@bluemouse Well does it not hide unless you reload, check, or resupply/grab ammo? It's not stuck there forever and you only briefly view it. I fail to see how a game feature that is hidden half of the time is distracting. I mean yeah, people will rely on the HUD but in RO2 your HUD would appear telling you approximately how many rounds you had and how many mags you had, same as in this game. But it's not distracting or anything? Literally the only difference is how it's displayed. One is in text and the other is a small icon.

last edited by TheSquirrel

@thesquirrel That's not the point. If you've played INS or DOI, there was NO option to check how many bullets you have in a magazine, only the number how many magazines you have. Everyone playing the game from my experience can still play well not knowing exactly how many bullets they still have before reloading after playing for more than a couple of hours.

Granted, most of the weapons in INS have very similar magazine capacities (20 & 30), but I still have to remember and keep track how many I have shot. INS:S from what I noticed makes the choice of reloading too obvious with no strategy.

Practically it is a necessity if you want to know when to reload in gameplay terms, but for the sake of hardcore gameplay, I believe that the current HUD showing ammo makes gameplay more casual than it should. It's not like the HUD shows the exact number of bullets left in a magazine, but it's enough information that makes the game too easy on reloading, and reloading is an important feature in FPS that does greatly affect how long you survive.

I realize that it's a small change in INS:S in its entirely, but I find the HUD caters too much to a casual style, and playing both INS and DOI shows that anyone with enough experience doesn't need to depend on HUD elements too much.

Noooooooooooooo, we want that to stay as it is! Chill guys, you don't need to look at it if you're bothered by it, just let the rest of us enjoy it as it is.

Bad suggestion. It already autohides unless you are reloading.

I agree imo, its too much. maybe you could keep the idea but instead of a hud thing just have a text pop up saying "mag nearly full" or something that gave you a rough idea of whats in there.

last edited by Zucchini

I would suggest have a way to be able to check if the weapon is on bolt hold open for one that does have that feature. In real life, sometimes you can tell you expelled your last round by sound and feel. But sometimes you don't, so you would turn over the weapon to the side to see if the bolt is held open or the slide is locked back.

The ammo counter isnt always there and to get it visable you have to perform a fake reload or tac swap, I like seeing a glimpse at how many rounds are left.

Also bluemoose, you could see direct ammo count in insurgency so I dont know what your talking about, this isnt day of infamy so dont treat it as such.

If you dont like the hud then disable it and people like you will be fine, why should everyone who likes seeing a rough estimate of how fat their mags are lose that ability cus ppl like you dont want to disable the hud.

I'm a vet of the mod, I say it should stay, all you disagreeable newbloods should deal with disabling your own hud since you're so against a bit of information.

last edited by Depleted

@bluemouse Well I don't really see how it makes the game more casual. I mean, in Insurgency and DoI (more pronounced in DoI), bolt action rifles have always shown you the exact amount of ammo you have left, but is that not an issue? I dunno, calling the game 'hardcore' seems like a bit of a stretch. Magazines can still be a big issue if you use the tactical reload even just a couple of times in a match. I think the new HUD compliments that - you know when to tactically reload and when not to. If you had a system like in Insurgency, I guarantee you people would throw away half of their ammo until they played the game for like 50+ hours and gotten to know every single weapon in the game and when to reload properly. It seems like an excessive amount of effort for a game series that is notorious for being both realistic and accessible. A middle ground between too hardcore and too easy to play.
New features have been added as well as new elements to compliment them.

last edited by TheSquirrel

@depleted I realize that the HUD fades away after a couple of seconds, and I know I can check the HUD's Ammo count just by doing quick swap using the scroll wheel on my end. It's that easy to check the HUD. Even I honestly gained a habit of quickly checking the ammo count before pushing up.

Yes, I know there are weapons where you have to load one round each with shotguns and bolt-action rifles which the HUD includes how many rounds you have, but that doesn't include the automatic & semiatuo weapons which are more effective than shotguns and bolt-action. Also you're wrong, you only see how much ammo you have in reserve, but not literally in the weapon's magazine itself which is what INS:S is now showing. For example, I load the TOZ with 7 rounds with 36 shells left, I fire off some shells, but I lost track. The HUD will still say I have 36 shells, but not tell me how many rounds are in the shotgun itself, so now I either keep going or I reload just to be safe. Same for the rest of the magazine-fed weapons, but the HUD only tells you how many magazines you have and not how many bullets are in the magazine loaded into the gun. I believe having the same ability with rifles, SMG, LMG, and battle rifles would make gunplay unnecessarily easier for all weapons now when keeping track when to reload.

Well good for you you're a veteran player of the original mod (assuming onto INS, DOI, and the beta), but I'm also an advit player on the official game INS & DOI spending almost 700 hrs in total so I'm not a newblood to NWI's work. Because of their games, I moved on to RS2 and Squad. About Squad, I know that they use a similar HUD system, but as an Insurgency fan who have enjoyed learning how to play well in their games with their mechanics, gameplay elements, and strategy, I felt it's a small, but critical difference toward the casual side in their slightly-new styled gamplay. The title says "suggestion", not "have to do it, or I'm refunding the game", so I'm just giving an idea like everyone else on this forum for the developers to consider. If you think my suggestion is so ridiculous for a veteran like you, then look for another post that was criticizing the addition of female characters or how someone claimed that the M249 LMG's recoil is too uncontrollable.

I do look like I'm hellbent on NWI to change the HUD, and I do because I believe I have a thoughtful suggestion, but if they don't want to change the HUD ultimately, fine. I still love the game based off my ALPHA and currently BETA experience, and I'm happy owning this game that supports an indie studio doing something AAA FPS games don't do. Besides, we both don't know for sure that if other INS mod veterans have the same idea like yours. Maybe they'll see the addition of a mag count from INS is a crutch, and see INS:S as NWI's take towards COD, and that's ridiculous to me.

I'll be honest that I didn't know there was a way to turn off the HUD through steam commands so I thought NWI would add an option in the settings to turn on, off, or modify elements of the HUD including fade time, size, and opacity. Could be in a later update if they want to. The developers, if they consider this opinion, would interpret this post to add options to modify the HUD, and that's fine with me.

last edited by BlueMouse

@thesquirrel Okay, so maybe describing a small change in INS:S compared with INS as "casual" is too exaggerating on my end. The sequal's Alpha and Beta are as chaotic, difficult, and punishing as it is, just that in my opinion for a hardcore FPS, reloading is a critical gunplay element that affects your survivability and readiness. I understand that this game will be released to the consoles too, so NWI would have to balance what gameplay features, harcore and casual, should be consistent between all platforms.

I am aware that shotguns and bolt-action rifles lets you see how many rounds you have in reserve instead of magazines, but the suggestion I made focuses on how INS:S lets players see how many rounds in the gun itself is left. For example, I load a KAR98k with 5 rounds and 30 left over. I shoot some rounds, but I lost count. The HUD will only tell me how much ammo/rounds I have left over, but not in the gun itself. So now I either just keep going or I stop and reload. This choice would be more critical and tense if I'm close with the enemy positions. With INS:S's HUD, I personally feel that tense situation like what I described is muffled down to depending on the HUD rather than memory (whether you trust your memory or not). I personally find this fun when I try to shoot someone, and realize I didn't keep track of how many rounds I have left with a loud click, and get steamrolled into oblivion. The tensity is what appeals to me with NWI's work.

With speed reloads complemeting the HUD's ability to check ammo, I can see it does. I think when you regular reload, the HUD pops up, but when you speed reload, the HUD doesn't show up or that it pops up too late so you'll never know how much you really have.

As for accessibility for new players, this feature is good for them. I started with INS, and later DOI, and I got used to the gunplay the long way. With the long way, I had a lot of time to learn since I don't play a variety of games, so I wanted to invest some time into learning. From a business standpoint based off of NWI's actions with E3 and participating in more game showcase events, they REALLY want new players (never owned or knew about NWI's work) to come on in, so I understand the inclusion of casual gameplay elements to keep things fast. I welcome that, just want to voice my opinion and see what people are thinking. If NWI doesn't consider my opinion, oh well. I liked INS's and DOI's HUD. Maybe they'll add or update the game an option to play around with the HUD.

last edited by BlueMouse

i agree. its unnecessary

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