Improving Kick Off Events

I’ve been dissatisfied with certain aspects of Blood Bowl's ruleset for a while, and I’ve been brainstorming changes that don’t stray to far from their intended impacts, but I think would improve the. The first I looked at were kick off events, the subtle RNG that can occasionally (which I is too often) totally reshape a match. Most kickoff events are fine. I like high kick, I think Get the Ref is great, and I love Rain, Very Sunny, and Blizzard. I have yet to meet any coach who thinks Throw a Rock or Sweltering Heat are good events, though.

In that vein, here are proposed rule changes that would mitigate, but not eliminate the impact of those events. Changes in bold

2 Get the Ref Throw a Rock
3 Riot
4 Perfect Defense
5 High Kick
6 Cheering Fans
7 Changing Weather (Rain, Very Sunny, Perfect Weather, Blizzard, Sweltering Heat)
8 Brilliant Coaching
9 Quick Snap
10 Blitz
11 Throw a Rock Get the Ref
12 Pitch Invasion

Throw a Rock - Each coach rolls a D6 and adds their FAME (see page 18) to the roll. The fans of the team that rolls higher are the ones that threw the rock. In the case of a tie a rock is thrown at each team! Decide randomly which player in the other team was hit (only players on the pitch are eligible). The player that is hit is stunned.

Perfect Defense - Defensive coach is able to rearrange the players on the field. He may rearrange 6 players that are not in tackle zones up to 3 squares from their current position. Players may not enter or leave the pitch

Sweltering Heat - Roll Roll 1d6+5*. The number shown is how many players on either team, that played in the previous drive, are allowed to set up for the next kick off as teams run out of water to hydrate their players. Coaches select the players that do not set up for the next kick off, and those players may include ones that are in the KO or Injury box. Players not selected to play go into the reserves box.

  • Why 1d6+6: The original version of this change used 1d3, and had the result of that roll be the number of players you had to remove from the field. Upon further consideration, this had to be removed as it meant that teams that started and finished a drive at 3 to 5 players had a ⅓ chance of dropping enough players that they could instantly concede. The 1d6+5 also permits that teams have ⅙ chance of not losing any players. The number added to the d6 could go as low as 4 (guarantee of dropping one player) and has high as 7 (keep a full team ½ the time).

Blitz - The defense start their drive drive a fraction before the offence is ready, catching the receiving team flat footed. The kicking team receive a free “bonus” turn: However, players that are in enemy tackle zones at the beginning of this free turn may not perform an action. Defense is allowed to use up to 6 players during this free turn, no more than 2 of which can be in the center zone. The kicking team may use team re-rolls during a Blitz. If any player suffers a turnover then the bonus turn ends immediately.

Pitch Invasion - Roll 1d3. That many players on each team are knocked down, laying face up. The players knocked down are randomly selected. The team with the FAME advantage knocks over one additional randomly selected player on the opposing team.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

The point of the randomness of the table is to force people to consider unlikely events. Blitz hurts for a reason: it's a 1 in 6 and if you fail to account for it then you are punished, just like any other 1 in 6 roll.

That said, reducing some of the variance in things like Heat and PI wouldn't be a bad thing, but I think there still needs to be a fairly hefty effect. I loathe the Rock, but I wouldn't want it to just be a stun or less likely. BH as max would be fine, though, imo.

"Well Bob, welcome to Wussbowl."

No thanks, Kick Off table is about right now. Only thing I'd like to see return is Bad Kick.

"Well Bob, welcome to Wussbowl."

Ah man, I had all my money on this being the first response to the casualty table thread. Don't worry though, it's still the most upvoted comment on the reddit thread.

Blood Bowl might not be predictable, but the community is kind enough to try and balance that out by being as predictable as possible.

Well maybe if the community is disagreeing with you then the game isn't the issue.

@dode74 said in Improving Kick Off Events:

The point of the randomness of the table is to force people to consider unlikely events. Blitz hurts for a reason: it's a 1 in 6 and if you fail to account for it then you are punished, just like any other 1 in 6 roll.

I think Blitz! may also play an important role in the overall Bash/Agi equilibrium. As it's clearly the kind of event fast and agile teams benefit most from, as they are the ones capable to capitalize on it to its fullest, making up for their general squishness a bit. Thus it needs not to be nerfed at all.

I also think such kind of proposal belongs more to TFF or, even better, to official game's FB's community.

last edited by Mori-Mori

How Blitz and Perfect Defense limit first-turn advantage for the receiving team by dramatically changing how they approach offensive setups are why I would never fully remove them from the game, and would probably come down against removing kick off events Champs ladder or Champions cup. However, they are too strong in the current rule set. While they can allow for coaches to come back from a poor situation, they are equally likely to push a match completely out of reach. The change to blitz also serves as an incentive for teams to put more players on the outer wings, and discouraging the umbrella/rule of 5 setup.

I'm obviously also not convinced that, as Dode put it "a 1 in 6" roll totally outside of the player's influence should have such a dramatic impact on the result of the game. Obviously you can fail a GFI to prevent a touchdown, but you can take sure feet to move that to a 1/36 failure, you can save a reroll to make that a 1/36 failure, and you can run an offense clean enough that you don't need to make a gfi in the first place.

last edited by SquirrelDude

Again, "too strong" is hardly a measurable quantity. I bet, a lot of elves and rats coaches don't think "Blitz!" is "too strong", rather it's "right what we need to get some chance to win against those chaos/c.dorfs killer teams"

@squirreldude said in Improving Kick Off Events:

Obviously you can fail a GFI to prevent a touchdown, but you can take sure feet to move that to a 1/36 failure, you can save a reroll to make that a 1/36 failure

..and you still are left with 1/36 chance you'll fail, regardless of all your efforts.

@squirreldude said in Improving Kick Off Events:

and you can run an offense clean enough that you don't need to make a gfi in the first place.

That's a wishful thinking, the game is designed in such way it's not possible to pull through all the time, even most of the time. Regardless of number of tackle zones you'll put out, there still may be that crazy guy once in a while, who'll leap into your cage and drop your ballcarrier on 2dice block against him.

The clean and risk-free offence on itself takes a lot of time and depends on good rolls as well, anyway. If you are not lucky enough to roll POWs all the time, KOing opponent's players left and right, you'll often have to do some risky moves closer to the end of a drive and/or weakening your screening. Some unlucky block or dodge and you may leave a breach in your screen enough threaten whole your offense. You do not control those things to its fullest, you just like to think you do.

@squirreldude said in Improving Kick Off Events:

roll totally outside of the player's influence should have such a dramatic impact on the result of the game.

Why it should? BB is a game about unruly, chaotic fantasy football match with a lot of gore and spectacular crazy plays (which may take place only because of all the randomness built into its core rules). It's still not completely random and is skill-based enough to see a clear difference between good and bad/mediocre coaches.

@squirreldude said in Improving Kick Off Events:

Blood Bowl might not be predictable, but the community is kind enough to try and balance that out by being as predictable as possible.

I'm not sure I'm following what community balances what. That's true you may use any rules you wish in your own league in TT, but beyond that I'm not aware of any efforts of making the game "as predictable as possible". GW designs the core rules, and "official" (NAF-sanctioned ) tournaments use the core CRP or BB2016 rules, not designed by some "community".

@squirreldude said in Improving Kick Off Events:

The change to blitz also serves as an incentive for teams to put more players on the outer wings, and discouraging the umbrella/rule of 5 setup.

The "rule of 5" was derived as a rule of thumb to protect your core players, what is especially important for more fragile teams. Those are also the teams which most of the time benefit more from said Blitz! event. So you propose to nerf that event in such way that it will force them to spread out their formation, exposing their valuable squishy players to attacks more? What is the reason for that change? I wasn't aware that attrition agi teams see atm is too low, why do you want to increase it, or decrease their advantage in initiative?

What is the point of this topic, anyway? It's okay if you would like to play some other flavor of BB, it's quite possible in TT, you just need to find some other players willing to play it. If you would just like to discuss your idea, you would see much more people willing to talk about it at communities like reddit or fumbbl (online is not that high on this forum). If you really are serious about your idea, you could go all official and try to start discussion at BB's FB community. It's highly unlikely GW's designers will adopt everything you've proposed, but may be they'll see a couple of points in it. The chance Cyanide will act on this adding it to core rules is close to zero, these changes are too significant and there is no really solid argumentation to change the core rules, they've been in its current state for many years and were used at many tournaments before.

Afaik, fumbbl (which are more eager to provide different home rules to their coaches), being one of oldest online BB communities, don't have any significantly large group using any kind of "fair, no-random flavor of BB" - what is most likely because of the lack of demand for such mode of play. Even so, you'll see any home rules requests answered on fumbbl much more faster than here.

Changing some core rules on a whim in a game that has been polished for decades, is hardly a wise solution. There may be good reasons why at least Perfect Defense and Blitz do work as they are, you could try to first ask around at places like TTF, for starters. Cyanide already announced they will stick to CRP, and observing their pace of development and willingness to implement even features which are in high demand, I would say you have zero chances even to see it as optional rules for your own league in BB2.

last edited by Mori-Mori
BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

@squirreldude said in Improving Kick Off Events:

However, they are too strong in the current rule set.

I disagree. Certainly they are gamechanging, but they are as powerful as they are to force the offence to honour the threat. Reduce the power and the offence no longer has to take it as seriously.

I'm obviously also not convinced that, as Dode put it "a 1 in 6" roll totally outside of the player's influence should have such a dramatic impact on the result of the game. Obviously you can fail a GFI to prevent a touchdown, but you can take sure feet to move that to a 1/36 failure, you can save a reroll to make that a 1/36 failure, and you can run an offense clean enough that you don't need to make a gfi in the first place.

You can set up to counter a blitz. Sure, take some cas and that becomes harder, but I think the teams best able to take advantage of the Blitz are those also most likely to be taking the cas.

last edited by dode74

A Blitz! is a 1 in 12 chance, not 1 in 6. It's a poor mechanic. We should be able to buy a stadium upgrade to nullify the Blitz! kick off event as we are with some of the others. That's something unique to the Cyanide version of the game and already implemented for many of the other kick off events.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

@woofbark said in Improving Kick Off Events:

A Blitz! is a 1 in 12 chance, not 1 in 6. It's a poor mechanic. We should be able to buy a stadium upgrade to nullify the Blitz! kick off event as we are with some of the others. That's something unique to the Cyanide version of the game and already implemented for many of the other kick off events.

It is 1 in 12 - you're right, my bad. It's a solid mechanism to prevent overly aggressive offensive setups. The offence already gets to set up last and go first.

Looks like your connection to Focus Home Interactive - Official Forums was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.