Doesn't feel like the same old Insurgency

"Fast TTK" vs. "Slow TTK" = "Teamwork" vs. "Aiming Skill"

Fast TTK =
You must trust your teammates to watch your back.
If you get ambushed from behind , your teammates must protect you.
You must work together with your teammates to survive.
If you dont work together with your teammates , you will die.
Everyone in the team must communicate and work together in order to survive.

Slow TTK =
You must trust your own aiming skill.
If you get ambushed from behind , you can just turn around and fight back.
Your aiming skill will protect you.
As long as you have good aiming skill , you don't need your teammates to protect you.
Some people will wander off by themselves.
Some people will rush to the objective.

You prefer Teamwork = You want to put your trust in your teammates = You prefer Fast TTK
You prefer Solo Roaming = You want to put your trust in your own aiming skill = You prefer Slow TTK


"Fast TTK" vs. "Slow TTK" = "Map Strategy" vs. "Aiming Skill"

Fast TTK =
You must be aware of the Map Strategy so that you don't get ambushed from behind.
You must constantly communicate with your teammates and inform each other about the enemy location.
You must plan Map Strategy with your teammates and execute the plan together.
You must work together with your teammates to control the map.
If you don't work together with your teammates , you cannot control the map.
Everyone in the team must communicate and work together in order to control every part of the map.

Slow TTK =
You must trust your own aiming skill.
If you get ambushed from behind , you can just turn around and fight back.
Your aiming skill will protect you.
As long as you have good aiming skill , you don't need your teammates to protect you.
Some people will wander off by themselves.
Some people will rush to the objective.

You prefer Map Strategy = You want to put your trust in your team strategy = You prefer Fast TTK
You prefer Solo Roaming = You want to put your trust in your own aiming skill = You prefer Slow TTK


The developers have 2 choices =

  1. Make this game "Teamwork + Map Strategy" focused Game => People who wanted "Solo Roaming + Aiming Skill" will move over to Call of Duty.

  2. Make this game "Solo Roaming + Aiming Skill" focused Game => People who wanted "Teamwork + Map Strategy" will move over to Arma.

@hthc-galthor How is full-auto better, exactly? You just waste ammo in the battle rifles that kill in 1-2 shots.

@nick-kim I appreciate how you try to actually bring up facts unlike at least half of the people involved in this discussion, but I don't get exactly how these facts line up.

How exactly does preferring teamwork mean you want a fast TTK? If you can kill four guys by yourself in two seconds then that's the exact opposite of teamwork. Slow TTK games benefit the most from teamwork, like Escape From Tarkov.

If you prefer roaming solo, like I do pretty often, I want a fast TTK so if I sneak up on a whole squad I don't have to worry about the first guy tanking ten bullets before dying.

For the Map Strats vs Aiming Skill, some of it makes sense, but I'm confused about how you can't control the map if you don't work with your team. You can dominate an entire squad by yourself if the TTK is fast enough that you can kill an enemy player head-on without taking any damage.

For the end part, people who want solo roaming and aiming skill could move to CoD I guess, but anyone wanting a slower TTK game probably won't move to Arma. That's a whole different bag that's not even close to Sandstorm. I'd say maybe Squad or Project Reality.

As of this post, hitreg has been partially fixed and armor was nerfed, so fast TTK it is!

@hthc-galthor Because you're firing like, 6 shots into a guy that takes a maximum of two to die (at least, he should).

That being said, I've recently learned that equipping a Long Barrel on a G3A3 or FAL makes your gun one-shot Heavy Armor users at close range. Don't know about the SCAR-H though.

last edited by MarksmanMax

Try the new patch, the game is pretty much like Ins2 now.

I did some local match testing and 5.56 killed with 2 shots to the torso regardless of armor loadout.

Is it me or do the guns just have less kick?

@nick-kim said in Doesn't feel like the same old Insurgency:

The developers have 2 choices =

  1. Make this game "Teamwork + Map Strategy" focused Game => People who wanted "Solo Roaming + Aiming Skill" will move over to Call of Duty.

  2. Make this game "Solo Roaming + Aiming Skill" focused Game => People who wanted "Teamwork + Map Strategy" will move over to Arma.

I'm in the "lower ttk is better" camp, but I still greatly prefer solo roaming and would rather trust myself than any teammates to cover my ass. So I don't think that generalization about lone wolf players holds up.

I've just had a wonderful flank where I snuck into an objective where 2 enemies where aiming out the windows and I could kill one and kill the other while he was trying to jump out the window into cover. If ttk had been longer, he might even have been able to turn around and headshot me with a lucky spray. I think the lower ttk is more about making offensive moves more rewarding and reducing the moments where you get shot at and feel like you might have lived if you had reacted just that tiny bit faster or better. I'd rather just drop dead instantly when someone got a drop on me if that means that my flanks are are also more successful.

Overall I'm quite happy with the progress this game is making, I'm starting to feel like I'm playing Insurgency again! 🙂

I think the next big thing after ttk might be discussing visibility issues. With everything being so busy with detail and low contrast in the shadow areas, I think that concealing yourself successfully in the environment and exploiting the appearance customization will play a huge role as soon as more people have figured out how much of a difference that can make. I don't really care either way, I love stealth games and I love run and gun games where I can see my enemies clearly, so I'm fine either way. But I could see this becoming a meta that many won't appreciate.

@nick-kim said in Doesn't feel like the same old Insurgency:
...


The developers have 2 choices =

  1. Make this game "Teamwork + Map Strategy" focused Game => People who wanted "Solo Roaming + Aiming Skill" will move over to Call of Duty.

  2. Make this game "Solo Roaming + Aiming Skill" focused Game => People who wanted "Teamwork + Map Strategy" will move over to Arma.

That's just my point too. Everytime I play Sandstorm I either end in playing the Source Insurgency afterwards or more often I play Arma afterwards and I enjoy it much more. The Source Ins is just much sharper in graphics, not so blurry and soft as Sandstorm and the game feels more realistic though the Sandstorm has much more amazing visual Details in the game (wouldn't it be so soft and blurry). Last time I played Sandstorm I wanted this fast arcady action I switched to BF4 and played this. It's graphics are much more sharp and nice then Sandstorm. I'm really sorry because I think the devs try to do their best job, but I'm still not sure which audience they look after, the arcade players or the hardcore FPShooter player. I wish it would be the latter. Another game I choose when I want to play arcady I play Black Squad. Very fast, extremly high FPS, very nice weapons - and boring after a while 😉

its to do with the bots being focused on the capture points, in the old ins you would encounter bots enroute to the point, with this ins the players run to the next point where most of the bots are focused and then when capped all bots are silently wiped out.

this encourages run and gun, players racing between the points, it discourages teamwork and skill, and makes the gameplay horrible.

and I have said it before same capture points time after time, makes the gamplay dull, you need to randomise the points and bot paths to make it less predicable and run and gun.

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