Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!

@biass said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

No there's a difference between feeling like AP rounds shouldn't be a loadout option because it's a "must-have" if it's there, and feeling like the game should be 2-4 body shots for a kill.

That's also what i said too, actually.

I see the misunderstanding here: I responded at first just to clarify and then responded the second time thinking I was responding to something else. Sorry about that. Yes you're right here.

Also, don't defend the guy. He just said he's not an INS 2 player. His words. You don't interpret them for him.

I don't class myself as an INS 2 player besides having close to 100 hours and getting upwards of 11 K/D a round (ministry pogchamp), but Benz is like me wanting the game to function well as a competitive game. People trying to reinforce the AP meta will return insurgency as a whole to a very boring and stale meta once again (which will be worse with sandstorms weapon diversity). I think spamming heavy armour will be the same, but i don't have an opinion on that until i know the hitreg is fixed.

Don't mean to be a dick but you're kinda making a lot of assumptions about someone you know nothing about.

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Don't mean to be a dick but you're kinda making a lot of assumptions about someone you know nothing about.

Just like when you instantly jumped to him saying he was trying a "hostile take over of the game", no?

I obviously don't speak for the guy, but it's his words that say he wants a competitive game.

@biass said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Don't mean to be a dick but you're kinda making a lot of assumptions about someone you know nothing about.

Just like when you instantly jumped to him saying he was trying a "hostile take over of the game", no?

I obviously don't speak for the guy, but it's his words that say he wants a competitive game.

I'm sorry if I take someone by their word.

The developers should give us a detailed explanation regarding the TTK problem.

Insurgency 2 was fun because of the fast TTK.

@nick-kim said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Insurgency 2 was fun because of the fast TTK.

Totally agreed. The lethal gunplay made it tense and unique from other shooters.

@slazenger said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@nick-kim said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Insurgency 2 was fun because of the fast TTK.

Totally agreed. The lethal gunplay made it tense and unique from other shooters.

Gonna quickly translate this:

Totally agreed. The easy gunplay made it boring and different from popular competitive shooters.

@benz said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

The easy gunplay made it boring and different from popular competitive shooters.

In Call of Duty , it takes 6~7 bullets to kill someone with SMG.

In Call of Duty , it takes 5~6 bullets to kill someone with Full-Auto Rifle.

Are you saying that Insurgency 2 is easier than Call of Duty because of the TTK ?

Are you saying that Insurgency 2 is boring compared to Call of Duty because of the TTK ?

If you think so , you should just stick with your Call of Duty.

I had fun playing Insurgency 2 because it took only 1 bullet to kill someone.

last edited by Nick Kim

@nick-kim i literally never played CoD in my life, besides 1 for the campaign.

I can compare it to a higher TTK game like CS if you want. Or even an extremely higher TTK game like Quake.

Answer? Yes. Holy hell yes. Insurgency is way easier from a gunplay perspective.

last edited by Benz

I had fun playing Insurgency 2 because it took only 1 bullet to kill someone.

This is legitimately the only valid argument for 1-shot-kills i've heard so far. Sadly.

last edited by Benz

@benz

This is your preference =

fast TTK = easier gunplay

slow TTK = harder gunplay

fast TTK = boring

slow TTK = more exciting

If you prefer slow TTK shooter , I am sure that you will have fun with Tom Clancy's Division.

In Tom Clancy's Division , you have to dump 100 bullets into someone's face in order to kill someone.

@nick-kim will there be somekinda argument at some point?

@nick-kim said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

In Call of Duty , it takes 5~6 bullets to kill someone with Full-Auto Rifle.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GqKojbDpGk95fGhFVyaT6VcHVCKAAnsNCqz62nAewOQ/edit?usp=sharing
This spreadsheet lists all the damage statistics from the latest call of duty title. it shows the lowest damage stat across all Rifles and Sub Machine Guns as being 30, meaning it takes a bit under 4 shots on the lowest damage weapon to kill an enemy player. Higher damage weapons need anywhere from 3 to 2 shots to kill an enemy player, and this was the case in previous titles as well. If you go back to the first black ops, even some SMG's dealt 2 shot kills without falloff. This is far below the stats you gave above.

The stock 1911 pistol in both CoD WW2 and Insurgency boast a 2 hit kill when the damage is not modified by range, armour, or ammo.

Don't be a child, Using CoD as a joke is for fanboys.

@biass

Thank you for the information.

But...

I don't play Call of Duty , so I don't need those Call of Duty statistics.

If you enjoy slow TTK shooter , there is a game that you will definitely enjoy.

In Tom Clancy's Division , you have to shoot your enemies 100 times in order to kill your enemies.

@nick-kim said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@biass

Thank you for the information.

But...

I don't play Call of Duty , so I don't need those Call of Duty statistics.

If you enjoy slow TTK shooter , there is a game that you will definitely enjoy.

In Tom Clancy's Division , you have to shoot your enemies 100 times in order to kill your enemies.

And i have a game for you: ratz instagib. 1 shot only. always. perfect game for you.

@benz said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Answer? Yes. Holy hell yes. Insurgency is way easier from a gunplay perspective.

@benz said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

This is legitimately the only valid argument for 1-shot-kills i've heard so far. Sadly.

Like I said in my long post about ttk a while ago, in some areas INS2014 had a lower skill ceiling and I think that is a good thing. It feels more like a tactical game because the shooting (aka execution of your plan) is easier and the plan you had in the first place matters more. I'd rather people think about "do I need to smoke off that line of fire there?" than them training to get good at headshots because the ttk got raised. I'd rather one sneaky flanker wipes out half the team, so that they watch their flanks better next time, than have every match be a same-y series of 1v1 duels scattered accross the map, where nothing extraordinary ever happens. Until "every weapon is OP again" I think there is no point in playing Sandstorm PVP right now because frankly (and I do hope that will change soon) pretty much every other online shooter is less broken and has better performance, and low ttk was the unique thing that INS2014 had to offer. If that's gone, I'm likely gone from the pvp scene too.

@grotesqueshadow said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Like I said in my long post about ttk a while ago, in some areas INS2014 had a lower skill ceiling and I think that is a good thing. It feels more like a tactical game because the shooting (aka execution of your plan) is easier and the plan you had in the first place matters more. I'd rather people think about "do I need to smoke off that line of fire there?" than them training to get good at headshots because the ttk got raised. I'd rather one sneaky flanker wipes out half the team, so that they watch their flanks better next time, than have every match be a same-y series of 1v1 duels scattered accross the map, where nothing extraordinary ever happens.

Literally nothing of that gets removed with a higher TTK. Just raises the skill ceiling. Apparently people playing ins2 like easy games.

You do realize the more skilled players get aiming-wise, the less aiming matters? That's literally how it works. Nothing you mentioned gets devalued.

@benz

I checked it out.

I didn't like it because =

  1. cartoonish characters

  2. sci-fi setting

  3. unrealistic weapons (such as laser guns)

  4. jet packs

  5. zero recoil

Ratz Instagib didn't seem like a Military Shooter to me.

I don't play sci-fi shooters.

I play Modern Military Shooters or World War 2 Shooters.

Thank you for your suggestion anyways.

If you prefer slow TTK Military Shooter , there are so many other options for you.

Call of Duty , Tom Clancy's , Battlefield , Counter Strike , and etc.

I prefer fast TTK Military Shooter.

Insurgency is the only option for me.

Stop trying to take away my only option.

You already have many other options.

Why are you trying so hard to get rid of my only option ?

Insurgency is unique Military Shooter because of the fast TTK.

If you take away the fast TTK from Insurgency , what will make this game different from other Military Shooters ?

last edited by Nick Kim

@nick-kim said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

If you enjoy slow TTK shooter , there is a game that you will definitely enjoy.

Here's another example of a game with a higher time to kill: Overwatch.
Take for example the Zarya character, despite having an instant hit laser she requires a vastly higher level of mechanical skill in order to play hey properly. Not even counting positioning, game sense, and ability skills too. If the laser one shot people, it wouldn't require any skill at all, you just need to point and click and in the case of multiple targets, just quickly sweep over everyone. That's what IN:source felt like to me, multiple targets were not more a challenge then just one, just pull down on the mouse a little and occasionally move it left or right and i had claimed up to 9 or so man spraydowns.
While i don't think Sandstorm should have overwatch levels of TTK, i don't think every (by that i mean most) weapons should be one shot kills. I think the developers didn't want this to happen in source either, but the levels of AP abuse made it seem that way. That's why i agree with their removal. They thought the meta had become very stale from it's abuse and i very much agree with them. Do i want division level bullet sponges? no, do i want ap meme? also no. I want a very rewarding gunplay and a diverse range of weapon systems. Sandstorm is close to having this but needs tweaking, not just reverting to AP ammo again.

@benz said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Literally nothing of that gets removed with a higher TTK. Just raises the skill ceiling. Apparently people playing ins2 like easy games.
You do realize the more skilled players get aiming-wise, the less aiming matters? That's literally how it works. Nothing you mentioned gets devalued.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. My fun, K/D, and winrate between INS2014 and literally every other multiplayer shooter is a night and day difference. TTK is the deciding factor and the only relevant difference between INS2014 and other shooters for me. I say you are wrong, and I don't understand why you argue so persistently for changes in a game, whose predecessor you according to your own statements never played for a long amount of time? I'm certain you'll understand my persistent arguing because INS2014 was the only multiplayer shooter that I liked, and if they change the balance, and the INS2014 community dies out/moves on there is no multiplayer shooter that I like on the market anymore. You could still play a considerable amount of multiplayer shooters with higher ttk and higher skill ceiling in the aiming mechanics. Why do you want Insurgency to change? Where does your investment come from? I have over 500 hours in the old game, which makes it my most played game by far. Iirc you said you played ~20 hours and moved on, so why do you even care su much? I don't understand you.

If the developers don't give us a good explanation about the TTK change , I will stick with Insurgency 2014 even if the player base dies out.

I will be the last person playing Insurgency 2014.

last edited by Nick Kim