Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!

@best-waifu said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@jensiii I don't defend that guy. But he took the occasion to be very insulting to byby for absolutely no reason just like he did to me and many others. So don't defend this troll. You should report him too, report other people that go overboard too.

I'm not defending @Benz because I wan't to defend him or a need to defend him. I say this because I spotted false claims.

If you are referring to the thread you linked (https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/29103/either-ttk-needs-changing-or-hit-reg-video?page=1), there's not a single post in that specific thread where @Benz is attacking byby personally.

First personal comment actually comes from byby: "I hope youre opinion is as useless to the Devs as it is for me." He then goes to call Benz ***"a noob who doesn't know anything"***, which is also personal attack. Those are clearly directed to Benz.

If I had to report someone in that situation, I would report byby. If there are some threads where your claim actually happened, please direct me to read those. I'm willing to change my view if proven wrong or if I have missed something.

Now I do agree that Benz could open up his points even further with the examples in that specific thread, because I notice that a lot of people misunderstand or misinterpret his points and take them personally (for no reason). Yeah, it's some work because the posts are going be longer, but then there's less room for misunderstanding 🙂 That's the problem when writing in text format: you don't hear tone of voice or see the facial expressions, so people misinterpret a lot easier and take things personally because they imagine things in their head. That's why I think we have to be very specific, literal and not assume things, when discussing on the forum about Insurgency.

@jensiii Here's some obvious provocation and belittling coming from Benz in that thread:
"Too bad many vet players seem to share my opinion. What do you have to say about that?"
"You know what kinda people are the loudest? The ones that complain."
And so on. His messages are always hostile.
Here's how he was behaving with me:
"big bla bla i just skimmed to see if there's an actual answer" He even tried to pass it as a quote from me, to make it look like I'm the one attacking him.
"stuff no one cares about we all know what kinda person you are"
"Calling someone a "troll" just because he debunks your BS is such a cheap way out" So I'm not allowed to have an opinion, nice...
"I suggest you try to read posts before replying."
"Funny guy."

You need to understand that he might not be using words like idiot and moron, but he's being just as aggressive and insulting. So yeah, he deserved to be reported for that attitude.

@best-waifu said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@Seven-Forty @TulioTTR @Whitby @Goat-Walrus @Genoharadan
Benz is being a troll on every thread and is destroying the point of this beta. I invite you to flag his profile as being a troll. To do so, click on his name and select the flag profile option in his profile page. Let's make an effort to keep this forum clean and civil so that the beta is a success.

You need to settle down with the backseat moderating. This is across multiple threads now and I implore you to halt before an actual mod silences you for witch hunting.
https://theadminzone.com/ams/backseat-moderators.427/

I'm of the opinion that the hitreg needs to be fixed before the time to kill, and before that even, fixing the game not even running properly.
Until then make sure you're not using weapons with low pen and thus complaining about armour, G3 seems to get OHK's all the time in my limited play time. I'm sure i could even bring head-shots back into my aim if the game ran as well as the last one, right now i can hardly aim right.

I personally don't think single fire was viable in source, sure you can get kills against players who you're behind, or otherwise miss you, (and that was 90% of the time admittedly because people in insurgency are often not able to know a sound cue) but in a straight fight just spamming AP and an AKM or 74u on auto was really the best option in the game without contest. I know a lot of people enjoyed the MP5K as a security option but I enjoyed the M4A1 despite it losing out to AKM's hard in a proper duel. I felt bad for anyone trying to use the Galil.

Oh, and no, shots per kill is not an indicator of the game's TTK. the game isn't so black and white, use your head for a second.

last edited by biass

@best-waifu said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@jensiii Here's some obvious provocation and belittling coming from Benz in that thread:
"Too bad many vet players seem to share my opinion. What do you have to say about that?"

How is that belitting or provocation? It was a simple question. I stated a simple fact and asked you a question.

"You know what kinda people are the loudest? The ones that complain."

That's also a simple fact. Forums are usually full of people complaining. Where are all the happy players? Playing.

Here's how he was behaving with me:
"big bla bla i just skimmed to see if there's an actual answer" He even tried to pass it as a quote from me, to make it look like I'm the one attacking him.

Do you actually take that quote completely out of context? Good job man. Everyone can read up the conversation here: https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/28915/the-problem-no-one-is-talking-about-w-regards-to-ttk?page=1

And i can tell you, you don't look very good in this conversation. At all.

"stuff no one cares about we all know what kinda person you are"

So? Also a fact. You post OT 90% in that topic. That's also not my fault.

"Calling someone a "troll" just because he debunks your BS is such a cheap way out" So I'm not allowed to have an opinion, nice...

How do you go from that quote to "So I'm not allowed to have an opinion"? That's just mindblowing. What kinda victim-hood mentality is this? If you have this mindset going into a discussion it's no wonder you act like everyone disagreeing with you is personally attacking you.

"I suggest you try to read posts before replying."

Yes. That's correct. What's so bad about this? Same convo as linked above, everybody can see he obv. didn't even bother reading the post he is quoting. Sorry for trying to make people read before they make stupid posts.

"Funny guy."

Oh god. Really?

So yeah, he deserved to be reported for that attitude.

Do you actually realize mods read this forum? And that they do ban people? Just recently (after your witchhunt has been started) a certain person got banned and as you can see, it wasn't me. Why do you think that is? MAYBE you are wrong about me and just overreact? Facts don't care about feelings. If you can't handle them and take everything as a personal insult as soon as someone disagrees with you, you are going to have a bad time in a forum. As we all can see. There are even MULTIPLE occasions where i give people credit for their opinion. I still don't agree, but i can understand them and then i give them credit. That's how discussion works.

In a previous thread you acted like a majority of players wants lower TTK. Wanna see another fact? https://www.reddit.com/r/insurgency/comments/9buvp3/potentially_unpopular_opinion_the_new_sandstorm/

This reddit thread has obv. way more upvotes than downvotes. 73% upvotes. If all this players would come into this forum and say they like higher TTK (the current one), this forum would certainly look quite a bit different, don't you think?

last edited by Benz

Very High ttk in sandstorm (atleast for ins veteran standard) caused by:

  • Hitreg issue (known problem, but NWI hasn't patched it yet), this is by far the biggest problem. I've experienced one shot kill with pistol but half mag with a G3....

  • Heavy armor balance

I understand that the devs want more variety in tactical loadout (like choosing higher caliber or higher rate of fire) but t right now i feel like the gunplay more rewarding towards recoil control rather than flanking or team work. I agree with you if I managed to flank 3 enemy from behind i should be able to kill 3 of them even with pistol only

@bandungpojok said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Very High ttk in sandstorm (atleast for ins veteran standard) caused by:
I agree with you if I managed to flank 3 enemy from behind i should be able to kill 3 of them even with pistol only

You already can. You can do this in CSGO as well, and CSGO has higher TTK and harder recoil than INS:S.

@biass said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

I personally don't think single fire was viable in source, ...

Yeah, i'm not an ins2 player and i looked up some frag movies and realized that a lot of comp players actually burst and full auto. Take this example. People on this forum act like ins2 was all about the 1 taps or shit, when in reality that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

last edited by Benz

NWI I just want to know if you intended for this the game to be like this. Be forthcoming about how you feel about TTK and make an official statement before release so that we can know what we're buying. Thanks.

@biass said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@best-waifu said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@Seven-Forty @TulioTTR @Whitby @Goat-Walrus @Genoharadan
Benz is being a troll on every thread and is destroying the point of this beta. I invite you to flag his profile as being a troll. To do so, click on his name and select the flag profile option in his profile page. Let's make an effort to keep this forum clean and civil so that the beta is a success.

You need to settle down with the backseat moderating. This is across multiple threads now and I implore you to halt before an actual mod silences you for witch hunting.
https://theadminzone.com/ams/backseat-moderators.427/

I'm of the opinion that the hitreg needs to be fixed before the time to kill, and before that even, fixing the game not even running properly.
Until then make sure you're not using weapons with low pen and thus complaining about armour, G3 seems to get OHK's all the time in my limited play time. I'm sure i could even bring head-shots back into my aim if the game ran as well as the last one, right now i can hardly aim right.

I personally don't think single fire was viable in source, sure you can get kills against players who you're behind, or otherwise miss you, (and that was 90% of the time admittedly because people in insurgency are often not able to know a sound cue) but in a straight fight just spamming AP and an AKM or 74u on auto was really the best option in the game without contest. I know a lot of people enjoyed the MP5K as a security option but I enjoyed the M4A1 despite it losing out to AKM's hard in a proper duel. I felt bad for anyone trying to use the Galil.

Oh, and no, shots per kill is not an indicator of the game's TTK. the game isn't so black and white, use your head for a second.

I agree that hitreg and optimization are number 1, but there's only so much time before release and players need to know what they're buying. NWI knows how they feel and think about TTK. They need to make an official statement before the game's release on how they felt about the 1 hit kills to the body in INS 2. Did they not like it and did they try to change it in Sandstorm?

@oldkingcole225 you can still play the game for 2 hours and refund it when it launches

plus, one of the devs already replied to this post saying they are discussing TTK

last edited by A Former User

@tuliottr said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@oldkingcole225 you can still play the game for 2 hours and refund it when it launches

Well, if the game isn't optimized and hitreg hasn't been fixed by release? I'm trusting NWI to fix hitreg and optimization because they are a trustworthy company, but I want to know if they don't intend to change the TTK

Hey, for any of you all saying armor makes the TTK too high, I posted this on another forum post and I'll just quote it here.
@marksmanmax said in Single fire vs Full auto:

What the fuck is happening here even.

@slazenger said in Single fire vs Full auto:

@best-waifu Let's just call it "high lethality 1 shot 1 kill" from now on rather than time to kill
Time to kill in my mind is the time it takes from the first bullet making contact - the subsequent bullets making contact - to the target dying.
This is not how we want it.
We want it 1 shot 1 kill.

As an Ins2014 veteran I don't want one shot, one kill because it leads to an annoying meta where there's zero reason to use anything higher than 5.56 in caliber (even virtually zero reason to use a primary weapon; I often did better with an M9 than an M4A1).

Also, armor doesn't make you a tank. You're actually kind of resilient to bullets without armor from what I've tested. With no armor you can survive:

-> One shot of a .45 ACP round from a M45 / M1911
-> One shot of 7.62x39 or 5.56x45
-> One shot of 9x19mm from any pistol or SMG
-> Two shots of 9x18mm (Makarov)
-> One shot of 7.62x51 NATO (from a SCAR-H; everything else one-shots)
-> Two shots of 4.6x30mm (MP7)

Light Armor would probably tank an extra shot from low-caliber and possibly intermediate-caliber cartridges, and Heavy Armor allows you to tank an extra shot of a battle rifle cartridge (although any caliber .308 AP and higher is a one-shot, I believe).

@tuliottr Exactly. I would run the AKM on full auto but for the most part I would be just shooting single bullets unless I needed to. With the m16 I generally only shot twice for 1 enemy.

If you prefer full auto spraying gameplay to the above then you should just play any other generic fps.
Insurgency is 1 shot 1 kill lethal gameplay and Sandstorm should stay the same.

@tuliottr said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@benz @biass
semi auto has always been viable in Ins2

Youtube Video – [07:53..]

The first two kills i didn't see him take a legitimate aim duel against another rifle, he probably is just using the lower cost M16 for the suppressor and not using burst because burst is a proper waste of time.

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Did they not like it and did they try to change it in Sandstorm?

They've said they didn't like what AP rounds did to the game, I think they personally do like a lower TTK but i presume that they wanted to do it in a different way then said AP rounds.

Oh, also: "one shot one kill lethal gameplay" is a bit of a meme because it often wasn't the case in source, especially with the M4 and some other meme guns like the M1 and the Galil
i would try and argue to buff the damage of the M16's that are forced to single or burst instead of adding global damage because your weapon will still be redundant if you choose the latter, especially to the G3, which is a lower cost weapon too, and has a very stable auto, and has better pen, so on and so forth...

If you think you're a better aimer for using single shot you need a reality check 🙂

last edited by biass

@biass said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Did they not like it and did they try to change it in Sandstorm?

They've said they didn't like what AP rounds did to the game, I think they personally do like a lower TTK but i presume that they wanted to do it in a different way then said AP rounds.

Oh, also: "one shot one kill lethal gameplay" is a bit of a meme because it often wasn't the case in source, especially with the M4 and some other meme guns like the M1 and the Galil
i would try and argue to buff the damage of the M16's that are forced to single or burst instead of adding global damage because your weapon will still be redundant if you choose the latter, especially to the G3, which is a lower cost weapon too, and has a very stable auto, and has better pen, so on and so forth...

If you think you're a better aimer for using single shot you need a reality check 🙂

Just because they said that they didn't like what AP rounds were doing to the game doesn't mean that they like what Heavy Armor is doing to the game.

@benz said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@biass said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

I personally don't think single fire was viable in source, ...

Yeah, i'm not an ins2 player and i looked up some frag movies and realized that a lot of comp players actually burst and full auto. Take this example. People on this forum act like ins2 was all about the 1 taps or shit, when in reality that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

Holy crap dude. You didn't even play INS 2? Why are you arguing with everyone so much? Us fans of the game are coming here to express how we feel about this game we love and you've been attacking us this entire time, and now I find out that you didn't even play INS 2? You have no idea what you're talking about then. You are so toxic. I was 100% right when I said that you are attempting some kind of hostile takeover of this game. Please let us fans of the original give our feedback in peace.

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Just because they said that they didn't like what AP rounds were doing to the game doesn't mean that they like what Heavy Armor is doing to the game.

Thats... what i said?

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Holy crap dude.

There is a difference between playing a game and "playing" a game. I have 175 hours in company of heroes 2 but i never really "played" it.
Don't backseat moderate.

@biass said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Just because they said that they didn't like what AP rounds were doing to the game doesn't mean that they like what Heavy Armor is doing to the game.

Thats... what i said?

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Holy crap dude.

There is a difference between playing a game and "playing" a game. I have 175 hours in company of heroes 2 but i never really "played" it.
Don't backseat moderate.

No there's a difference between feeling like AP rounds shouldn't be a loadout option because it's a "must-have" if it's there, and feeling like the game should be 2-4 body shots for a kill.

Also, don't defend the guy. He just said he's not an INS 2 player. His words. You don't interpret them for him.

@oldkingcole225 said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

No there's a difference between feeling like AP rounds shouldn't be a loadout option because it's a "must-have" if it's there, and feeling like the game should be 2-4 body shots for a kill.

That's also what i said too, actually.

Also, don't defend the guy. He just said he's not an INS 2 player. His words. You don't interpret them for him.

I don't class myself as an INS 2 player besides having close to 100 hours and getting upwards of 11 K/D a round (ministry pogchamp), but Benz is like me wanting the game to function well as a competitive game. People trying to reinforce the AP meta will return insurgency as a whole to a very boring and stale meta once again (which will be worse with sandstorms weapon diversity). I think spamming heavy armour will be the same, but i don't have an opinion on that until i know the hitreg is fixed.

last edited by biass