Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!

@doghead said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

We don't know if the game registered your hits.

If I see blood and hear the guy scream I would assume it to be a hit. Have you observed that the audiovisual hit feedback and the hitreg in the gamelogic are not in sync?
(I was firing the FAL, which used to be 1 hit kill on legs without AP in Insurgency2014)

last edited by GrotesqueShadow

Didn't the devs state that they wanted to get rid of the ap ammo meta that was going on? The subreddit is full of people posting memes about running naked with only an ap makarov, not to mention the memes of people not playing the objective.

I don't mind either, especially since it was fun in Ins 2 to go around John Wicking people, but I can see how others would get pissed that they got ganked by some guy with nothing but a dinky little pea shooter halfway across the map because he just sprayed AP rounds at him. The increased TTK actually made me be a lot less reckless in coop since I couldn't one shot them without aiming for the face at least. And that's assuming the hitreg works. It's still buggy and I can't wait till it gets fixed.

@grotesqueshadow said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Have you observed that the audiovisual hit feedback and the hitreg in the gamelogic are not in sync?
(I was firing the FAL, which used to be 1 hit kill on legs without AP in Insurgency2014)

Yeah quite a bit, especially in non-borderline scenarios with semi-auto fire right on center mass. I've gotten red mist spray from SVD hits without dropping people — unless others can confirm the SVD was nerfed I'm convinced it was hitreg.

Slazenger's thread has good examples:
https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/28525/horrific-hit-registration-if-you-are-not-already-aware-which-you-should-of-been-during-the-alpha-months-ago

last edited by Doghead

@tuliottr said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@benz said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@tuliottr said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@benz https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/28525/horrific-hit-registration-if-you-are-not-already-aware-which-you-should-of-been-during-the-alpha-months-ago

try trolling this thread too

are you implying a high ttk (gameplay) and bad hitreg (technical) are the same issue? 😂

https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/28670/fail-netcode-example/2

you certainly dont seem to know the difference

Nice, now you don't even try to make sense anymore. Alright. Great discussion. Thanks for showing everyone that you can't support your claim of "lower TTK = good" with actual gameplay facts, but only "muh it's not what i'm used to" and "mimimi immersion". Gladly the devs seem to know what they are doing and as long as you keep throwing around fruitless phrases without any substsance, nothing will change that. Just shows how close minded some people are :).

Current TTK system has also rendered low rate of fire weapons like the SCAR and FAL useless because sometimes you need 3 or more hits to kill a person but with such rate of fire you can't just do it in time -- the person you are shooting at can change his movement direction, turn around and kill you in a blink of an eye with his M4 just like in CoD.

I have played just 7 hours of Beta (and 25 of Alpha) but I already had multiple situations when I started to shoot an enemy with my FAL or G3 and had hit him like 1 or 2 times and after that he just turned around and killed me.

I understand that you, the developers, want to get rid of massive loads of bush camping the previous game might have had, and I entirely support that decision, but why do you have to make people literally sonic-speed bullet sponges? You can make it so at least every assault rifle (let's discuss SMGs later) can kill anyone in 3 hits maximum. You can even lower that to 2 hits for FAL and G3 (arguably, the AKM too) for the cost of highly increased recoil and/or weapon sway (just like in the Alpha!) because both rifles utilize high caliber ammo and have a low rate of fire.

Just don't cross the line like in Insurgency 2 where an old pistol like PM can be even more useful than a modern fully-modded assault rifle. For example, make pistols kill people in 4 shots when they have full HP but kill those who were injured in 1-2 shots, because you often draw your pistol when out of ammo to quickly finish off some bad guy which you already were shooting at, not to straight up rush an enemy position with it and kill everyone daring to defend there including heavily armoured enemies.

Personally, I liked the Alpha FAL and G3 very much. These could one-shot an enemy if he had no armour at all and as I remember could kill anyone in 2 to 3 shots no matter what armor they used. And that was fair because they had MUCH higher recoil and were MUCH MORE harder to control and almost impossible to spray when not in a close quarters battle. I used these a lot and absolutely loved them. I felt like my skill and aim were rewarded when I successfully eliminated 2-3 enemies in the adrenaline-pumped hurry of a building assault.

One of the biggest problems in Alpha was the extremely low movement speed and overall sluggishness of the game. But now when the pre-order Beta is out that is mostly fixed. High movement speed generally helps make the game more lively and less of a camper swamp. The low TTK even helps active fast-moving playes fight the campers because they can constantly change their position, suppress, circle and finally punish the camper.

Also the MP7 is absolutely useless now. Even more so than earlier. I mean in Alpha (after the MP7 recoil got fixed) it was a viable close quarters assault weapon and now it feels like you need to put 5 bullets in a man with it to kill him. What the heck?

@doghead said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@grotesqueshadow said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

Have you observed that the audiovisual hit feedback and the hitreg in the gamelogic are not in sync?
(I was firing the FAL, which used to be 1 hit kill on legs without AP in Insurgency2014)

Yeah quite a bit, especially in non-borderline scenarios with semi-auto fire right on center mass. I've gotten red mist spray from SVD hits without dropping people — unless others can confirm the SVD was nerfed I'm convinced it was hitreg.

Slazenger's thread has good examples:
https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/28525/horrific-hit-registration-if-you-are-not-already-aware-which-you-should-of-been-during-the-alpha-months-ago

Hmm, in the fullauto video in that thread there is not bloodspray on every shot, the amount that I see blood would be in line with how many shots it can take with an assault rifle. On the semi auto video I only see bloodspray on the killing shot. However it is quite possible that you are right nonetheless. I have not played much with the svd in pvp, but against bots it seems to be the only weapon that I've found so far, that produces reliable one hit kills on center of mass. I haven't tried it enough in pvp yet.

Yeah it feels like currently a higher rate of fire is simply "better" than lower rate of fire weapons that should do more damage per shot.

It also feels that using single fire is a big disadvantage in pretty much all situations in comparison to full auto. You can easily tap or short burst enemies on longer ranges while it feels that shooting tap-tap-tap in single fire will actually give you more and less controllable recoil than shooting in full auto.

@benz have you scheduled that optometrist yet buddy?

It needs tweaking, either lower speed and keep the current TTK, or reduce TTK and keep speed the same. Should play more like Ins2.
Along with fixing the hit registration issues (maybe if that is fixed we will get a better idea about TTK).
Respawn times can be reduced to counter the changes.

last edited by zefs

@zefs I agree. Maybe slowing the game down and keeping the current TTK would be ideal. But since the sprinting speed is so fast, we need to be able to take down people with very few shots, otherwise you can just dodge bullets

@tuliottr said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@zefs otherwise you can just dodge bullets

Dodge hitscan bullets. Gotcha. 😂

I think what you actually meant to say here is: you need to aim better to achieve the same. Yeah, I take that. Good point.

@benz keep replying with your dumb arguments. You are just bumping up the threads and making the issue more relevant

@tuliottr said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@benz keep replying with your dumb arguments. You are just bumping up the threads and making the issue more relevant

can you explain how to dodge hitscan weapons?

@benz because the sprint speed is too fast. I can literally run in the open and zig zag back to cover without getting hit in case I get shot at. There is only so much good aim can do

@tuliottr said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@benz because the sprint speed is too fast. I can literally run in the open and zig zag back to cover without getting hit in case I get shot at. There is only so much good aim can do

Yes, sprint acceleration is too fast (not the top speed)/weapons dont have enough stopping power. I agree. How is that relevant to TTK? TTK = dmg over time a weapon makes, when actually hitting. You not being able to hit...because or reasons is a different discussion.

@benz wouldnt you agree that a high TTK would make it even harder to take down fast running targets?

@tuliottr said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@benz wouldnt you agree that a high TTK would make it even harder to take down fast running targets?

What kinda question is this? Yes? Needing to hit more bullets over time = harder. So?

@benz I just find it frustrating as fuck when I shoot at a target and he gets aways by zig zagging.
There was this instance that there was me and 2 other dudes shooting at a guy that must have been 20 meters max away from us. He got away by zig zagging to cover. We all complained about it at the time

@grotesqueshadow In terms of TTK, it's basically the same as it's always been. I don't think hitreg is actually the issue either as I'm pretty sure hitreg problems would show up in Local Play, but when I start a Solo game I have zero issues killing people. Hitreg is flawless. I think there's just a large Desync problem that often causes you to miss enemies completely, even if it looks like you're hitting them on your screen.

As for pistol TTK, it's pretty balanced. I've found that most, if not all, 9mm pistols kill in about three torso shots if the enemy has Heavy Armor on, and the M1911 / M45 seems to kill in two shots (which is pretty fucking generous; that's actually roughly what the pistol damage was in Ins2014 with AP ammo equipped, except now the .45 handguns are stronger than the 9mm ones). That being said, we definitely need more pistol ammo magazines because currently you don't get anywhere near enough.

@slazenger said in TTK and the identity of this franchise:

@grotesqueshadow said in TTK and the identity of this franchise:
Insurgency2014 and Day of Infamy's gunplay was the same. The latter, day of infamy, while having the same gunplay did not have AP and Armor and thus, did not have this "meta of everyone using AP round like stopping power in CoD" that the Devs keep fussing about

I know what you're talking about, but sadly DoI's gunplay wasn't even remotely similar to Ins2014. The biggest problem with that is how they balanced the weaponry. The damage models for weapons is completely retarded imo .The Welrod does more damage than every other pistol in the game except for the Webley and the MP40 does more damage than the Thompson, and basically half the weapons in DoI can't hit shit past ten feet (hell, with pistols you're lucky if your gun hits the enemy even at that distance; the spread is almost as bad as the TOZ shotgun from Ins2014).

However, with the new "effective range" stat in Sandstorm that essentially controls a weapon's effective engagement distance without sacrificing damage or accuracy downrange, this problem was avoided completely.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@tuliottr said in Has the TTK been increased? if so... why?!:

@benz I just find it frustrating as fuck when I shoot at a target and he gets aways by zig zagging.

And I don't disagree. As I already said: sprinting acceleration is too high. That's still a different issue.