Another hit-reg (and partly TTK) rant and suggestions.

This text is straight up copied from one of the previous post's comments section.


Current TTK system (or maybe the hit-reg system) has rendered low rate of fire weapons like the SCAR and FAL useless because sometimes you need 3 or more hits to kill a person but with such rate of fire you can't just do it in time -- the person you are shooting at can change his movement direction, turn around and kill you in a blink of an eye with his M4 just like in CoD.

I have played just 7 hours of Beta (and 25 of Alpha) but I already had multiple situations when I started to shoot an enemy with my FAL or G3 and had hit him like 1 or 2 times and after that he just turned around and killed me.

I understand that you, the developers, want to get rid of massive loads of bush camping the previous game might have had, and I entirely support that decision, but why do you have to make people literally sonic-speed bullet sponges? You can make it so at least every assault rifle (let's discuss SMGs later) can kill anyone in 3 hits maximum. You can even lower that to 2 hits for FAL and G3 (arguably, the AKM too) for the cost of highly increased recoil and/or weapon sway (just like in the Alpha!) because both rifles utilize high caliber ammo and have a low rate of fire.

Just don't cross the line like in Insurgency 2 where an old pistol like PM can be even more useful than a modern fully-modded assault rifle. For example, make pistols kill people in 4 shots when they have full HP but kill those who were injured in 1-2 shots, because you often draw your pistol when out of ammo to quickly finish off some bad guy which you already were shooting at, not to straight up rush an enemy position with it and kill everyone daring to defend there including heavily armoured enemies.

Personally, I liked the Alpha FAL and G3 very much. These could one-shot an enemy if he had no armour at all and as I remember could kill anyone in 2 to 3 shots no matter what armor they used. And that was fair because they had MUCH higher recoil and were MUCH MORE harder to control and almost impossible to spray when not in a close quarters battle. I used these a lot and absolutely loved them. I felt like my skill and aim were rewarded when I successfully eliminated 2-3 enemies in the adrenaline-pumped hurry of a building assault.

One of the biggest problems in Alpha was the extremely low movement speed and overall sluggishness of the game. But now when the pre-order Beta is out that is mostly fixed. High movement speed generally helps make the game more lively and less of a camper swamp. The low TTK even helps active fast-moving playes fight the campers because they can constantly change their position, suppress, circle and finally punish the camper.

Also the MP7 is absolutely useless now. Even more so than earlier. I mean in Alpha (after the MP7 recoil got fixed) it was a viable close quarters assault weapon and now it feels like you need to put 5 bullets in a man with it to kill him. What the heck?

Important to note -- Uzi is even worse than MP7. It seems to have around the same damage but a much lower fire rate which makes it obsolete comparing to MP7 or AKS-74U.


Mentioning @best-waifu's post from https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/28642/has-the-ttk-been-increased-if-so-why/120?page=6

I have to disagree with about your entire post.
If we take into account military training, regular soldiers are trained to just shoot the target. Sometimes you train them for the pelvis, more rarely the belly and even more rarely the head. The truth is that soldiers don't have the luxury of nit-picking which area of a target they're shooting at in live combat situations. So training is just about pointing your gun in the right direction and shooting accurately enough to supress a real target in combat. Then sometimes the soldier get lucky and lands a hit at whatever parts his target had exposed. Most killing in war are made by artillery, bombs, shells. Not so much about small arms fire.

So from the get go, insurgency cannot be considered a realistic combat sim game. And, most important and foremost, it's not fun for the player to not be able to kill his targets reliably. It puts chance before skills and never makes you feel rewarded or accomplished for working hard on mastering the game. As other players have pointed out, you cannot take on a group that has the numerical advantage on you because of this time to kill.

If the game is not made for a player's enjoyment, then very few will buy it. I'd hate to see NWI going bankrupt for making this mistake.

last edited by Seven-Forty

I don't understand this post. I've never been in these situations you speak of. I always use the G3 and have never had problems with people turning around and shooting me. In fact, most die in very few hits? Maybe the damage system is bugged?

@ronmose with higher TTK, low firing rifles and semi auto only rifles are in a huge disadvantage against full auto rifles

I'm gonna speculate that this is a hit-reg issue and not a TTK issue. Bare in mind that Heavy Armor is actually heavy in this game and there's no AP rounds like in Insurgency.

Beta 1 had a ton of glaring hit-reg problems and some of the less obvious ones may have persisted.

@tuliottr Oh, that was my bad. I do understand what you mean. I just never experienced it myself.

last edited by ronmose

G3 is literally max 2 shots no matter what. I never play this weapon and I just tested it to see what you are on about and couldn't verify it at all.

The TTK with the G3 is quite low. If you feel like you are at a disadvantage DPS-wise vs. f.e. a G36, then the G36 is doing too much dmg. That said: the TTK with the G3 already IS low. So if anything the TTK for lower dmg weapons should be higher.

Can you provide some gameplay footage to verify the claim that the TTK for big caliber weapons like the G3 is high?

The game has hitreg issues. That's a technical issue though and not a gameplay one.

I have just played solo with bots and tried to test FAL's damage and it kills them in 1-2 shots. I don't know if bots use light or heavy armour or if they are made to have less HP than a player does, but FAL kills them steadily.

However in multiplayer people seem to get like 4 shots in the waist/chest area and still be alive. Especially from a high distance (notice that bots do die from one shot at the same distance). Maybe it's just the server issues, then I hope they get fixed before release or that the release itself gets postponed, because in its current state the game is very poorly optimized.

last edited by Seven-Forty

@seven-forty https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SAHBfjsISlXPJHAQbhMSUlovLwCHu1e1

I legitimately haven't experienced a single situation with the G3 where I needed 4 hits to kill someone. 4 hits ( !! ).

I'd still like to see gameplay footage of such a situation. With info about performance and ping. You write like you encounter this frequently, so getting footage of it should be easy.

I think a hit reg problem is continually being reported as a TTK or heavy armor problem. The only time it takes me multiple shots with a G3 is when I hit and don't see the blood/dust spray from a hit. Which means it missed as far as the game is concerned. Have heard that bolt actions have been nerfed, also not true when it regs the hit and you get the blood spray.

It seems to be better from beta1 and I hope they keep improving this issue with all the optimization that is ongoing in beta2. They had all maps rendered with only high detail textures, no matter the distance. They keep adding in the lower detail for further distances and it is improving the overall performance each time.

last edited by RifRafJonesy

@benz if you know how to get and upload such footage, your help would be appreciated.

It seems like you don't believe me at all and think that i'm just a no-skill person which complains about everything he can't succeed in. Like an SJW which wants to ban everything 'offending' including life itself. That could be truth if only I was the sole person who noticed weapons not killing enemies, however there are multiple posts here on the forum where other people address the same issue.

Wish I could use such programs as Fraps or maybe Bandicam to record videos and show you them from MY perspective, because I think the game's replay system doesn't allow for accurate view of what player sees. Unfortunately, my rig is not that productive to simultaneously run a game and a screen recording program like Fraps.


Maybe the explanation I have given is a bit hard to understand (my English is not that good), so I'll try to utilize a PUBG example for it may be representative of the problem.

As you may know, there are multiple server and hit-reg issues there. You can shoot someone, clearly see that your bullets hit them, however from their perspective they may be located like 10 metres away from the point your bullets are hitting which gives them an advantage. Still, the game's replays clearly do not replicate what was there on your screen when the encounter happened. A replay may show you apparently shooting a place where no one is positioned when in your experience there were enemies in that place.

Hope you understood what I mean.

@seven-forty What are you complaining about? Hitreg or TTK? Get yourself together man. First you complain about the TTK of certain weapons and now you complain about hitreg. Why are you complaining about 2 different things in 1 thread. How are we supposed to have a discussion? Tell me.

TTK is a gameplay problem. Damage over time.
Hitreg is a technical problem.

Are you suggesting to change gameplay in order to mitigate a technical problem? That would be quite crazy.

@benz providing I can't get such footage at the moment I will lend you a couple of videos by different other players which show that there IS a hit-reg or a TTK issue or maybe both.

  1. https://streamable.com/vkmv6
    (taken from here https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/28787/the-netcode-hit-reg-needs-to-get-fixed/24?page=2)
  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mPmycWFDKY
    (taken from the forum post, just the 1st comments' page)
  3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uhxX4Mk9IA
    (taken from here https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/28525/horrific-hit-registration-if-you-are-not-already-aware-which-you-should-of-been-during-the-alpha-months-ago)
last edited by Seven-Forty

@seven-forty thanks for posting hitreg problem videos. Nothing more to say. My post above stands as it is. Pointless thread.

last edited by Benz

@rifrafjonesy said in Another TTK rant and suggestions.:

I think a hit reg problem is continually being reported as a TTK or heavy armor problem. The only time it takes me multiple shots with a G3 is when I hit and don't see the blood/dust spray from a hit. Which means it missed as far as the game is concerned. Have heard that bolt actions have been nerfed, also not true when it regs the hit and you get the blood spray.

I have explicitely looked for this when playing local play against bots and I have definitely seen a stomach hit with the G3 against a bot (with clearly visible blood spray) that did not kill him. And on average the TTK in PVP is much higher than in local play vs bots, and I don't have the impression that it is just hitreg that is causing this.

@benz hey you don't quite seem to understand me.

I bought a game, I play it and I see that the product I have bought has multiple issues. I'm not a programmer myself so I don't know how do these issues appear and how to fix these. It's the developers' job to fix issues. And that's why I go to the forum to refer to the developers and to point the issue out for them to see it. That's it.

If I misjudged TTK for hit-reg than excuse me, but there are lots of other people complaining here on the forum. And I saw you on these threads. You seem to understand them and the issue's nature, so why do you even argue here?

@seven-forty You are arguing gameplay based on a technical issue. Nough said.

@benz the only thing pointless here is you trolling. This forum is for people to help the developers see and fix problems. And that's what I (and many others) am doing. I'm pointing out the issues I see. I don't know how that may be useless if the developers themselves ask for feedback.

@seven-forty said in Another TTK rant and suggestions.:

@benz the only thing pointless here is you trolling. This forum is for people to help the developers see and fix problems. And that's what I (and many others) am doing. I'm pointing out the issues I see. I don't know how that may be useless if the developers themselves ask for feedback.

Can you explain to me how changing gameplay helps solving a technical issue they are aware of anyways? Would love to hear that.

You know. If you complain that you can't drive your car at full speed on a broken street, you repair the street, you don't make your car drive faster.

last edited by Benz

@benz Uzi is now useless. MP7 is pretty much too. Yesterday I have played Competitive and M14 EBR didn't even one-shot people from a distance of like 10 metres despite me hitting them. That was not the issue in Alpha.

last edited by Seven-Forty

@benz I have renamed the thread, smartass. It's now a hit-reg issue thread. Your argument is now of no use. So stop trolling or get the hell out please.

last edited by Seven-Forty

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