Demolition role is currently ridiculous. Recommened fix

I know it is a bit of a harsh comment, but it is quite ridiculous in both realism point of view AND gameplay wise.

Currently, the Demo can equip 40mm grenade launcher, an RPG/M3 MAAW AND a nade of your choosing. For gameplay wise, this means you have 2 GL and 3 RPG round and 1 nade to spam. Not only that, if you tap on the supply crate, you can charge up your explosive count to 4 GL, 4 RPG and a grenade. In addition, if you happen to pick up another RPG, or 2 RPGs, then you can charge those picked up RPGs to 4 rockets each making 12 explosive shots possible. I had roudns where I was MVP just because I knew how to spam RPGs since the TTK is so high, that RPGs are basically cheese right now. I won't go into the realism part, since I'd expect it to be obvious.

To fix this issue I'd recommend something similar to the last game, but with the added features from the new.

  1. the grenade launcher: When GL is equipped on the rifle, the explosive slots are open to ONLY 40mm grenades, whether it be smokes or HE rounds. Each explosive slot will give 2 rounds of 40 mm nades. This means you can potentially get 6 in total, but you can mix and match with smokes/HE, making the role more versatile as well. In this case, the grenade launchers will be the same for HE and smokes.
    Or alternatively, when GL is equipped, all explosive slots are disabled, but the GL round numbers depend on the ammo vest level (2 for none, 4 for light, 6 for heavy). I'd prefer the first option, but the later is pretty much identical to the previous game so I'd expect familiarity.

Side note: AK74 and M4 should also be available for GL launchers.

  1. The RPG: If RPG is equipped, IED and grenade launchers become unavailable. If another RPG is picked up, only the ammo will transfer, rather than receiving another RPG launcher. If a different launcher is picked up, it should drop the other one.

Side note: for Insurgents, RPGs should be cheaper due to it being a necessity for the faction to take down helicopters. Furthermore, RPGs may also have a home made HE variant ammunition for better infantry fights, but useless for helicopters or armoured vehicles. (refer to the game "Squad" with their RPGs on insurgent sides.

  1. Role distinction: I think the grenadier and anti-tank roles should be separated if helicopters will still be a thing. I personally think that helicopters don't have a place in this game, as it looks rather off putting moving sluggishly waiting for an RPG or a nightmare to deal with. Without proper dedicated anti air system (whether it be a call in mechanic like Rising storm 2 Viet Nam, or a stinger is added (since they were used by the afghans) Helicopters will forever be weirdly slow to balance things, while still being a nightmare for maps without much cover, as it can spawn wipe the whole team if timed correctly.

  2. This point is rather separate from the demolition role, but rather the observer/commander call in dynamic. Instead of marking targets with binoculars, why not use coloured smoke grenades instead? Whether it being thrown or launched by the grenade launcher. Then, the annoying forever babysit of observer/commander can be avoided, while the call-in mechanic becomes more risky (as you need to get close to pop the smokes if thrown, or need more coordination if launched), since it is already indicated with a coloured smoke anyways, why not make it a bit more realistic? I know this idea could be refined, but the current mechanic is not creative nor enjoyable.

last edited by io543

If anyone has any suggestions on the demolition's ridiculous fix, please give some feed back to NWI!

3 RPGs with 4 rockets each sounds like a lot to carry 😅 Makes me want to talk again about sprint acceleration and zigzaging.

Agree with AK74 and M4 GL.

@jensiii You don't get it. It's 4 RPG+ grenade launcher + IED. If you pick another launcher, it is up to 12 RPG/M3 MAAWS AND 4 grenade launcher. You can carry 3 rocket launchers with 12 ammo and a rifle with grenade launcher and run? lol you must be the hulk.

@jensiii said in Demolition role is currently ridiculous. Recommened fix:

3 RPGs with 4 rockets each sounds like a lot to carry 😅 Makes me want to talk again about sprint acceleration and zigzaging.

Agree with AK74 and M4 GL.

Again even though I think 3 RPGs AND a grenade launcher might be a hindrance, I think the biggest issue is the game play perspective. I get MVP all the time on push just spamming RPGs on the objective. I don't care how good the enemy player is, I have yet to find one that outsmarts rockets.

@io543 haha yeah, now THAT'S a lot! I agree that this should be looked on by the devs 🙂

@io543 said in Demolition role is currently ridiculous. Recommened fix:

Again even though I think 3 RPGs AND a grenade launcher might be a hindrance, I think the biggest issue is the game play perspective. I get MVP all the time on push just spamming RPGs on the objective. I don't care how good the enemy player is, I have yet to find one that outsmarts rockets.

Yes, I agree that this will be gameplay issue as well, if it's possible to sit next to a resupply crate and spam away.

This thread really brings home the fact that it's IMPOSSIBLE to go over weight in this game, unlike how easy it was in the last one. I agree with the grenade launcher suggestion. It's stupid to have to pick EITHER smoke OR explosives.

Well, you might not have liked my server. The demolition class had access to a vests that carried:
24x 40mm, 3x hand
12x 40mm, 1x heavy demo
6x 40mm, 1 rocket
4 rocket, 3 hand

I did this with the changes that I upped the amount of time between resupplies for ammo. This let me give people enough ammo to play at least one point to be able to refit, without making it open to abusive resupply spamming. The larger vests also slowed the player down significantly, dropping speed by 40-60% depending upon stance.

I also figured that if we had a demolition class, we should have a real reason for having it. If the difference between rifleman and demo is two 40mm grenades, then it's kind of pointless. So, I allowed the demo guy to have a lot more ammo to be able to really clear a point, while trying to keep it from becoming a spam fest.

Here is a simple diagram of suggestion 1.
If 3. is implemented, this also applies.

0_1536577396173_INSSS Grenadier.jpg

@io543 Whoever suggested this, this is a solid idea imo.

Bumping this thread since the new update seems to have made GL's more stranger than ever. I'd suggest making a separate class for Grenadiers (instead of being part of demo kit) and apply something similar to my diagram above.

@io543 Honestly, NWI could maybe pull a Day of Infamy and give Riflemen the smoke and explosive grenade launchers, but seeing as how powerful they are in Sandstorm that might not be the best idea.

Explosive spam needs to go. It adds nothing to gameplay. Smoke launchers are cool, and RPGs are necessary with the technicals and bullshit helicopters (but that's a rant for another thread), but using RPGs and grenade launchers against players is complete cheese. It's not fun in the slightest to be rewarded for playing the objective by getting blown up by some idiot you don't even have LOS to, and I don't find it particularly engaging to shoot a grenade into the point, check the scoreboard to see if I killed someone, reload, and then shoot another grenade.

@cyoce It's honestly not very effective with the much larger maps, though, unless of course you're just straight-up camping the enemy spawn and massacring them with an explosive, but that's a different problem entirely.

EDIT: Also, the helicopters seem to stay on the field for far less time, now, so they aren't much of a threat at this point.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@marksmanmax Larger and more open maps just means there are more angles to spam the objective from.

@cyoce said in Demolition role is currently ridiculous. Recommened fix:

@marksmanmax Larger and more open maps just means there are more angles to spam the objective from.

Yeah, but the objectives are often pretty large areas too, so people are a lot more spread out.

@marksmanmax So then it's not guaranteed that they kill you. I don't see how it's much better when they get at least 5 tries before resupplying.

last edited by cyoce

I think this is a great idea. I think the smoke launcher has to go for other classes and for demo you just pick the ammo you want like in Rising Storm 2 Vietnam

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