Slide has to go

@snuffeldjuret said in Slide has to go:

@marksmanmax said in Slide has to go:

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It wasn't a thing in Insurgency: Modern Infantry Combat? Yeah, neither was weapon modding, dude. It's been eleven years since MIC. Even Ins2014 is almost five years at this point.

Exactly, how it was in ins2014 doesn't matter and how it was in ins2007 doesn't matter.

-> Tries to back up a decision for Sandstorm using the original mod.
-> I compare how the original mod was so limited compared to the standalone release.
-> He dismisses my point entirely, saying "oh, neither game matters".

Good job with that argument. I never even said Ins: MIC or Ins2014 "didn't matter". Don't twist my words to back up your claim when I clearly didn't back up your claim to begin with.

Sandstorm is literally based off of Insurgency Source and Day of Infamy. They both matter.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@marksmanmax said in Slide has to go:

-> Tries to back up a decision for Sandstorm using the original mod.

I didn't try to back up a decision for Sandstorm using the original mod. I made a point that Sandstorm is it's own game.

-> I compare how the original mod was so limited compared to the standalone release.
-> He dismisses my point entirely, saying "oh, neither game matters".

Not sure what makes the age of the games relevant to that. I would honestly not say that the original mod was so limited compared to the standalone release. What has 2014 that 2007 doesn't have? Slide is one thing, that is true. Weapon attachments is another, yes. Sure there are differences, like draw distance limitations but I am not sure what significant difference there is to make it a point worth noting. All these points are fine to make, but I don't think it is fair to assume I would understand that that is your point when you e.g. mention how old the games are. I don't expect you to perfectly articulate your thoughts, I do however expect decency.

Good job with that argument. I never even said Ins: MIC or Ins2014 "didn't matter". Don't twist my words to back up your claim when I clearly didn't back up your claim to begin with.

I never claimed you said, that was my own statement (compare using "exactly" to "as you said"). For my perspective, you are the one twisting my words with the whole "Tries to back up a decision for Sandstorm using the original mod." thing earlier.

Sandstorm is literally based off of Insurgency Source and Day of Infamy. They both matter.

They matter to some degree. I disagree that they matter to such extent that since 2014 had slide, sandstorm has to have slide. I don't see the relevance in this discussion.

@snuffeldjuret said in Slide has to go:

@marksmanmax said in Slide has to go:

-> Tries to back up a decision for Sandstorm using the original mod.

I didn't try to back up a decision for Sandstorm using the original mod. I made a point that Sandstorm is it's own game.

You made this point... where, exactly? Can you quote where you stated this point because I don't see it anywhere in either of your previous posts?

@snuffeldjuret said in Slide has to go:

-> I compare how the original mod was so limited compared to the standalone release.
-> He dismisses my point entirely, saying "oh, neither game matters".

Not sure what makes the age of the games relevant to that. I would honestly not say that the original mod was so limited compared to the standalone release. What has 2014 that 2007 doesn't have? Slide is one thing, that is true. Weapon attachments is another, yes. Sure there are differences, like draw distance limitations but I am not sure what significant difference there is to make it a point worth noting. All these points are fine to make, but I don't think it is fair to assume I would understand that that is your point when you e.g. mention how old the games are. I don't expect you to perfectly articulate your thoughts, I do however expect decency.

How is the age relevant? The mod is eleven years old, dude. When Alex was asked on stream if Sandstorm has any maps inspired by MIC he was like "...huh?". MIC just isn't relevant to the Insurgency series anymore.

The original mod was just that, a mod. The standalone has more maps, more weapons, full Workshop support, weapon moddability with 30ish attachments, a loadout system, movement mechanics like sliding and leaning (based off of player weight), etc. It's a completely different game and it doesn't play like MIC at all. It's what made the Insurgency series a big thing.

"...I don't think it is fair to assume I would understand that that is your point when you e.g. mention how old the games are." -> I do admit that my point was a bit vague. I meant more like MIC isn't relevant to the Insurgency series anymore, but Insurgency: Source still is, but that's not really how that rubbed off lmao. Kinda fucked that up; not gonna lie on that one.

I'd fight the "decency" insult but seeing as how I really worded that fuckin weird that's my own fault.

@snuffeldjuret said in Slide has to go:

@marksmanmax said in Slide has to go:

Good job with that argument. I never even said Ins: MIC or Ins2014 "didn't matter". Don't twist my words to back up your claim when I clearly didn't back up your claim to begin with.

I never claimed you said, that was my own statement (compare using "exactly" to "as you said"). For my perspective, you are the one twisting my words with the whole "Tries to back up a decision for Sandstorm using the original mod." thing earlier.

This, on the other hand, confuses me. The first part makes sense though, as you didn't actually say what I said you said lmao.

But then, you try to throw back my (at this point pretty unwarranted) insult by saying I twisted your words when I said you were backing up a decision for Sandstorm using the original mod, but uhh, isn't that what you were doing?

@snuffeldjuret said in Slide has to go:

@marksmanmax Sure, but it wasn't a thing in ins2007.It is super arcaday as long as it is anything but realistic.

If you want Sandstorm to throw sliding in a dumpster, why did you mention that MIC doesn't have sliding if you aren't using that to back your argument? Like... what?

@snuffeldjuret said in Slide has to go:

@marksmanmax said in Slide has to go:

Sandstorm is literally based off of Insurgency Source and Day of Infamy. They both matter.

They matter to some degree. I disagree that they matter to such extent that since 2014 had slide, sandstorm has to have slide. I don't see the relevance in this discussion.

Well, Sandstorm obviously has its own completely-brand new elements that simply couldn't have been implemented back in the Source engine, but for the most part, the base gameplay has stayed the same (AP and HP are no longer attachments, for instance). The slide has been in both Ins2014 and DoI, so it makes sense to add it to Sandstorm. It's a cool feature that isn't in most "realistic" games (although said realistic games often have a dive-to-prone mechanic which is probably more cancerous than sliding is).

That being said, I feel like you shouldn't have such a wide cone of fire while sliding. You can legit look left or right like a solid 90 degrees while on your knees to hipfire some poor fuck with 5.56. If it was closer to the vaulting cone-of-fire (maybe 70 degrees in both directions) or maybe even less I think it would make more sense.

Again, I'm pretty sure the reason you can shoot while sliding is so that if you accidentally slide you aren't completely defenseless like in Ins2014 or DoI.

last edited by MarksmanMax

+1
Dislike it, too much COD like

@marksmanmax I honestly don't know why we are discussing who said what. What is the point, really? The only thing I want to clarify is that I mentioned ins:mic as an example as to why you don't have to hold yourself to the older game (in response to you referencing the older game, for whatever reason). I am not making my own argument, I am trying to kill what I perceive your argument to be. The point being that if slide is bad for sandstorm, it should not be in sandstorm. It doesn't matter if it is in ins2014 or doi. If it is bad for sandstorm, it should not be in sandstorm.

I can't speak for Alex, I honestly don't really know where he comes from or what his history with insurgency is :P. You can ask Xanthi though if he remembers the old ins:mic map Sinjar ;). Buhriz was in ins2014 as well. As I understand it it depends on who owns's the maps or something when it comes to practicality. IIRC the school from Ramadi in ins:mic is still an inspiration for sandstorm. I could be wrong though as it looks rather different these days. The mod wasn't just a mod. It was a good, popular, award winning and ground breaking mod. I would not say it is irrelevant as many from the old guard is still here and we are still talking about it, but not relevant enough to create be all end all arguments. It carries the same name, coming from the inception of Operation: Counter-Insurgency (OPCOIN). IMO likewise for ins2014. In this entire thread I don't believe I referenced ins:mic, so my hate for slide has nothing really to do with it not being in that game. I just don't like the feature. I think it is bad, all on its own merits. This entire paragraph was rather useless though, I just don't like it when people take poo-poos on ins:mic :D.

@snuffeldjuret I can't roast MIC (to be honest I haven't even fuckin played it) but I pretty much get the gist of what you said. I'm not trying to derail any arguments but that's probably happening anyway lol.

I don't wanna derail any more arguments, though. That already happens on my posts lmao.

As for sliding, I think it can work in SS but it needs to feel less arcade-y. It almost feels like you're floating tbh. That 180 degree aim radius really needs to go. Make it like 30 degrees in either direction and maybe add more recoil when firing while sliding.

Alright.... I'm going to be a double douche here.

Firstly by resurrecting a relatively old thread, and by also bringing up military experience.

I spent a nine month tour in Afghanistan with the TF 1-10 battlegroup in southern Panjwai and my patrol house was one of the most frequently attacked outposts in Afghanistan during that time.

I did plenty of baseball slides between cover, with 40 lb ballistic plates in my vest, 12 magazines which are roughly 2 lbs each for an additional 23 lbs and a ton of water bottles in my pack and a bunch of other random shit.

Sliding is indeed realistic, sure maybe not as crazy as it is portrayed in Insurgency, but you can definitely go from a full sprint to blasting your ass on hard pack for a good four to six feet.

@exile Thanks for your service! Did you do the slides on your knees though is my question.

I feel like the slide of SS has a greater loss of inertia than the ins2 slide and I like it better now, but I still feel like a baseball slide (which I assume means on your ass) would be more appropriate than what is currently implemented.

I mostly slid on my ass (almost always my left thigh) because it could take the hit harder than the knees and I could stand up very quickly if I slid on my leg rather than my knees. My knee pads sometimes rode up if I slid on them, but if I had to I slid on my knees, but I couldn't get up quickly afterward, and usually ended up on all fours from the momentum of the weight on my pack. If I was sliding on both knees, it was toward a wall where I could brace myself.

It's still an unpleasant situation to be in, but you do what you need to do.

@exile no douche detected :). What I want is either realistic slide, or for it to removed if the realistic slide make things more worse than better. I prefer the latter but I'd settle for the former.

slide has to go--you need to go..
if you dont want to slide..then dont..simple..there is still millions of people that want to slide so ..just drop the subject and dont slide..very simple......to slide press c..to not slide ,dont press c

@iggor003 At the end of the day, you should still respect people's posts; maybe not their opinions, but just don't be a total asshat for no reason at all.

Also, "millions of people" say they still want to slide? Where'd you get that number from? You've seen posts from a million Focus Forum users?

New World Interactive

Hot take: Try running from a sprint in real life and immediately crouch to a dead stop without slowing down beforehand.

I mean you can argue about the distance at which you slide or the time the animation takes. But if we were to remove it, do we make players slow down before they crouch? Just trying to figure out the alternative here.

Personally, I'm all for the current system. If you don't want to slide when you crouch, slow down. If you want to slide, stay at a high speed.

When people are so tired of seeing a post that Master Alex himself has to talk some sense into people.

@alexblonski said in Slide has to go:

Just trying to figure out the alternative here.

I'm just saying the animation should be changed to a slide on one's ass, not knees... keeping it exactly the same otherwise.

Not a big deal or anything, but it would make it more realistic imo.

last edited by thehappybub

There needs to be more of an inertia impact on movement in all aspects. The patch in which player's took longer to stand up when prone was an excellent idea and the rest of the movements should take some notes from that.

@alexblonski Oh shit Alex himself had to come roast someone lmao

This thread is a shit-slinging train wreck that should not have gone on for 4 pages.

Thanks to @Exile and @alexblonski for weighing in and saying what should have been said at the beginning. Slide is fine, but inertia in general I feel has to be worked on. Things like slowing down and accelerating gradually would be another cool thing to add.

last edited by Marxman LMC

@alexblonski said in Slide has to go:

Hot take: Try running from a sprint in real life and immediately crouch to a dead stop without slowing down beforehand.

I mean you can argue about the distance at which you slide or the time the animation takes. But if we were to remove it, do we make players slow down before they crouch? Just trying to figure out the alternative here.

Personally, I'm all for the current system. If you don't want to slide when you crouch, slow down. If you want to slide, stay at a high speed.

I am sure that is difficult in real life. It is not difficult currently in the game however. If you let go of sprint before pressing crouch, maybe with a minor marginal, you will crouch from essentially sprint speed. So the alternative is essentially to nerf slide so it becomes realistic, which really should be the obvious choice. That there even is a discussion about this is baffling.

Yes I am arguing about distance and speed. No one has yet told me the current distance and speed is realistic. My impression is that it is not realistic, but I can't really prove it. The burden of proof is on the one who claims it is currently realistic and since no one has so far, what can I do but assume it is unrealistic in its current form?

The problem with the "deal with it" argument for the current system is that it is a bit cumbersome. It is also not like other games, which makes it particularly cumbersome when you play more than just sandstorm. It could be solved with introducing a key bind for slide that is default on crouch, that can be rebound to whatever. Lots of games have key bindings like that.

I can't believe that people are not more rational about this. Is the slide really that funny to sacrifice a sense of realism for it? If we are to go on your arguments, why not speed the slide up? Why do you think this particular speed and distance is best? What do you really base your arguments on?

last edited by Snuffeldjuret

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