Issue with damage evaluation on limb hits.

I've used the local play mode with deactivated AI to try out how many hits on what location it takes and I've found that if I aim at the chest of an unarmored bot a pistol kills with 2 hits, but if I aim it so that I would hit the heart, but the arm of the bot is in the way, then it will take 3 hits. I think that is a bug, it should scan like 1 meter deep past the point of impact to see if there is another bodypart and then it should count as 1 hit, using the damage multiplier of the more vulnerable body part. It seemed to me, that for leg, hits where another leg is past the first one, it sometimes counts like 2 leg hits, but I didn't test that extensively. I think it would be best to always count 1 bullet for 1 hit, and take the most vulnerable bodypart on the line of trajectory to calculate damage. Arms (or weapons) blocking bullets only makes the damage-model/hitreg in a game feel inconsistent and frustrating, I think that really should be avoided.

Also I think an AKM hit to the chest without armor should be a 1-hit kill, but it seems to be a consistent 2 hit kill, which I find immersion breaking and not-fun. Leg damage multiplier could be higher as well imho. FAL/EBR on legs without AP ammo used to be 1-hit kills, AKM now needs 3 and pistol 4 iirc (didn't test legs too much). If armor is supposed to mean something in the game, imho the legs need to be one of the vulnerable zones, not "armored by default".

It's incredible to see somebody create statistics to back up the argument against the atrocious TTK problem. +1

I've actually posted some videos this morning, one of them was this

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12K-pAoWb_zPNM4fzmuASD_02MVhyJ91_/view?usp=drivesdk

You can see the second bot took 3 hits. No arm in the way. I will try to verify your claim once I get back home.

As promised, i tried to verify your claim. Here's the result:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZPG1oyJlcvTrjSQbpDRiUZiqk32RN27q

You can see i 2 shotted every bot, even though i hit them in the arm.

I hope a dev can tell us if bots:

  1. have armor, what kinda armor
  2. have same HP

In general react to dmg the same as normal players

Insurgency Sandstorm Community Moderator

For better 1:1 testing it would be best to use the same ammo type, if not the same weapon. The 5.56 rounds probably have different values than the 7.62, even at close range.

FORGET WHAT I SAID. I nailed down the issue. Its not the limbs, as i've shown. I've tested more. IT'S THE HANDS.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-jErT52TW1mfkY7rAAozkOZDDK0pbFJW

Multiple videos. Everytime i shoot hands = 3 hits.

Edit: in the end it makes kinda sense. Hitting hands deals less dmg. But yeah, problem is hands totally blocking bullets.

last edited by Benz
Insurgency Sandstorm Community Moderator

That's a good find.

Given how people hold their weapons, it could explain how if you're aiming @ body mass center, it can feel like people take more shots than necessary to die. If you're both aiming at eachother, you could very well be hitting their hands instead of their body.

đź’ˇ

@prevent yes. Of you'd argue you gotta hit belly to reduce this somewhat "random" phenomenon. But i don't know. I'd rather like hands not completely blocking bullets. But then the question is: does one take dmg to hands AND chest? or just chest and pretend hands dont exist?

Here is a screenshot of an AI bot that froze in a very fortunate position to test a shot on the head with the arm blocking it. You can still see a faint reflection from the wet blood where I shot him (right where I'm aiming). Since he survived, this seems to confirm the issue I was posting about.

0_1535991246696_20180903175413_1.jpg

I made some more tests and (on bots at least) the armor that I visually see on the 3D models doesn't seem to make any difference when I shoot at them with an AKM. They all die in 2 unobstructed chest hits. They usually also die on 2 arm hits (with no chest behind the arm in the line of fire), though I didn't try out if there are different arm hit zones. For legs I have done enough tests to conclude that there are at least three zones: 5 akm hits to the toes for a kill, 4 akm hits to the shin for a kill, 2 akm hits to the thigh for a kill. I think this kind of damage reduction down the leg is waaaay to extreme. Especially considering there is no serious penalty to movement speed for leg wounds. (A guard in Skyrim can't even take 1 arrow to the knee, and their days as an adventurer are over, and we're talking about 7.62 mm rounds that can penetrate walls here... [/joke])

Seeing the same kind of blood spray and having such vastly different results from hits to different locations on the leg makes the game feel random and unfair in real pvp situations. I think that's a bad idea and would recommend to make the whole legs have the same damage multiplier (highest of those you have now).

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