Before literally anything else, bolt-action snipers need to be able to kill in 1 shot.

Does this need to even be argued? The appeal of some of the maps in Insurgency is the fact that at the very end of a open area or lane could be a sniper setup with his bipod rifle. It would be totally life or death if you were to make a run for it, or you could play smart and move from cover to cover or use support grenades (smoke/flashbang). Whatever the method, it was a tense experience that could get your heart pounding.

After this is done we can move onto the rest of the 7.62 guns and have them able to achieve a 1 shot 1 kill.
After that, the medium caliber 5.56 will be made more lethal to kill in 1 shot.

while we are at it: let's making breathing at people insta kill. You'd also implement a "death stare" that kills people.

(but yes, bolts should be 1 shot no matter what)

last edited by Benz

@slazenger could ask you the same question

Because a 7.62mm projectile fired out of a bolt action rifle does more damage than the exact same bullet fired out of a semi-auto rifle?

Sniper rifles right now can kill in one shot if it's a head shot. Shot placement matters. No sniper rifle in the world can instantly kill someone by shooting them in the arm.

@slazenger said in Before literally anything else, bolt-action snipers need to be able to kill in 1 shot.:

After that, the medium caliber 5.56 will be made more lethal to kill in 1 shot.

At this point I can't tell if you're trolling or not.

Again, I sense the current damage is a bug and not a design. Bolt actions will 1-shot about half the time, other times they'll just produce a red mist.

With bolt calibers being described as "7.62x54 Amour Piercing" and greased bolt costing you just as much as an SVD it seems clear they intend for 1-shot bolt kills.

@maa_bunny Obviously I meant for the chest and head, like Insurgency2014.

@maa_bunny that's a dangerous route! he wants literally every weapon to 1 shot. Why even bother having weapons in that game.

Rifle with scope > bolt sniper if both do the same dmg anyways. But logic..isn't a visitor on this forum. nostalgia is.

@slazenger said in Before literally anything else, bolt-action snipers need to be able to kill in 1 shot.:

@maa_bunny Obviously I meant for the chest and head, like Insurgency2014.

So armor should have no effect at all on bullets fired from a bolt-action rifle?

@maa_bunny Yep. Armor shouldn't even be in the game in the first place.

@slazenger ... why? Why the hell would anyone walk onto a modern battlefield without armor? These days even police officers wear armor. It's ubiquitous.

@maa_bunny
Who knows aye. It's also like a soldier who won't carry a mag of armor piercing rounds with him too

or a game where you actually need some skill to aim instead of getting ez pz 1-shot-chest-kills like this is somekinda UT instagib.

Currently , Full-Auto is better than Bolt-Action in every aspect.

There is no reason to choose Bolt-Action over Full-Auto.

If Full-Auto can do almost the same amount of damage as Bolt-Action , why would anyone choose Bolt-Action over Full-Auto ?

Bolt-Action and Semi-Auto weapons need buff.

The Damage Difference should be :
Full-Auto = 33%
Semi-Auto = 50%
Bolt-Action = 100%

Full-Auto should do about 33% damage compared to Bolt-Action.
Also , we need more recoil.
Full-Auto is too powerful because it does not have enough recoil.

last edited by Nick Kim

Snipers in Insurgency were always one shot anywhere except the legs. This damage they dealt actually gave them purpose. You even had two options to go for sniping in Insurgency as well. Either the rewarding power of accuracy with the bolt action or the multi role forgiving nature of battle rifles, allowing themselves to do well in most ranges, but not as far and great as bolt action rifles.

@Benz the reason why most of the guys here that played insurgency that want a low TTK style don't just think to make the game easier but to enforce player thinking about their strategic routes and how to take objectives efficiently and quickly. In Insurgency Source everyone had the ability to kill each other in a short of span of time, therefore you would have the enforce the mindset of taking things slowly and efficiently. But in a game like Insurgency, taking it too slow and camping would essentially make you a deadweight to the team and not earn you any points at all. The reason why we want low TTK is not that we want the game to be easier, but we want sense of tension and tactical efficient thinking reinforced as an idea for the new players of this franchise. You can get away with so much BS in sandstorm compared to regular insurgency where overthinking and taking it too slow would leave you as a deadweight and being out in the open would just instantly lead to your death.

Insurgency combines a blend of fast paced and tactical gameplay unique in the tactical shooter genre that forces efficiency in taking objectives and with your kills. Sandstorm just dumbs down these kinds of elements.

However don't think us vets hate the game, we see the game as a major improvement compared to the source engine limited predecessor.

@derpydays a higher TTK won't make the game less tactical. Different skills. Just requires better aim. No freebie kills for campers with bad aim.

I find it more impressive seeing X people clearing a room with clean headshots than some ez pz chest shots.

Quake3....strategy is everything at high level. Why is that? CSGO....same...why is that? But for SOME REASON people in here think ins:s needs a low TTK so it's more tactical. What a joke.

If you want 1 shots: aim for the head. Where's the problem?

P.S: a technical reason why a low TTK is awful for online games:

In online games, you have a netcode. Depending on how the netcode works, you get a peekers advantage or a camper advantage. So there already is an advantage caused by tech. A lower TTK emphasises this advantage, because on top of the technical advantage that "steals" time to react, you also get a gameplay advantage, because of the low TTK. Why would you emphasise technical problems? Makes 0 sense.

Current State :

Bolt Action =
You fire a shot - Wait for the delay - You fire another shot - It takes more than 2 seconds to kill a person

Full-Auto =
You fire 3~5 bullets continuously - It takes less than 1 second to kill a person

This is wrong. This is not fair. This is not balanced.

The Damage Difference should be :
Full-Auto = 33%
Semi-Auto = 50%
Bolt-Action = 100%

For Example :
If a Full-Auto weapon does 33 damage and fires 5 bullets per second , this Full-Auto weapon can do 165 damage per second.
33 x 5 = 165

If a Semi-Auto weapon does 50 damage and fires 2 bullets per second , this Semi-Auto weapon can do 100 damage per second.
50 x 2 = 100

If a Bolt-Action weapon does 100 damage and fires 1 bullet per second , this Bolt-Action weapon can do 100 damage per second.
100 x 1 = 100

Currently , Full-Auto can do superior damage and Full-Auto always kills faster at any range.
Even at long range , Full-Auto has the advantage.
This is why Full-Auto recoil needs to be increased and Full-Auto accuracy needs to be decreased.
Currently , Full-Auto recoil is too low and Full-Auto accuracy is too high.
In order to bring up the skill level ceiling , Full-Auto needs more recoil.
Sandstorm is too easy compared to Insurgency 2014 because Full-Auto does not have enough recoil.


Solution =

  1. Buff Bolt-Action ( Increase Damage )

    or

  2. Nerf Full-Auto ( Increase Recoil and Decrease Accuracy )

last edited by Nick Kim

@benz I don't know how much I have to say this, but insurgency's fast paced nature is the reason why we want it low TTK. It makes its own identity unique other than tactical shooters in the market. I don't want to play another squad/rising storm 2 clone. I just want the comforts of Insurgency, even as a person who actively enjoys milsim in ARMA 3 and tactical games like SWAT 4 and Ground Branch.

Making it just high TTK would just ruin the action and identity Insurgency is well known for. It's gonna do more harm than good. It'll make insurgency swallowed up by the tactical shooter genre and just be bland.

Even most shooters of the tactical genre are literally low TTK, the only thing that limits them is the fact most aren't close quarters based or have gameplay mechanics that force the player to adapt to a slow paced play style.

Insurgency is not a game primarily focused on aim. Hell, aim is only one thing that makes up your skill Insurgency. It isn't even a major contributor at all. You also need map knowledge. Even me myself, a person who primarily focused on aim even on CS:GO had been fucked over by guys who have superior map knowledge. Even with friends that are better than me aim-wise find themselves getting fucked over in a game like Insurgency. Insurgency encourages you to think not be always braindead focused on aim.

And besides, even with a low TTK, the one with the best aim in a firefight is always guaranteed to win against the person with bad aim.

Lowering TTK will just affect the identity of this franchise for how renowned and tense the game was. What's the point of drastically changing something the franchise is well known for.

You'd need to play Insurgency Source or Day Of Infamy to have a general understanding why low TTK in a tactical game was somehow good. No tactical games haven't seamlessly blended the gameplay mechanics of fast paced combat and tactical understanding like Insurgency. (I'd probably count siege on this one, but it feels casualized in some ways.)

@derpydays

I totally agree with you.
Braindead Kids want to play a FPS game that tests their aiming skill and nothing else.
Braindead Kids don't care about teamwork and communication.
Braindead Kids don't understand anything about squad formations and map strategy.
Braindead Kids don't know the difference between tactical planning and strategical planning.
The sad thing is that Braindead Kids make up large share of global FPS game market.
Even on this forum , you will find Braindead Kids who just want to play a braindead game that is all about aiming skill and fast reflex.

last edited by Nick Kim

Benz seriously lay off already. Every thread your a complete jack ass to people.

The dev's said they wanted to keep the lethality that Insurgency is known for in their last live stream.

I just played back to back Insurgency Source, and Insurgency Sandstorm. Source nailed it. The movement speed is about 10%-20% less, the ttk is lower, and it is still competitive and is still skillful. It just places tactics, positioning, and first shot accuracy over being able to spray someone down for 4-5 shots.

It's the fundamentals that make this franchise great.

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