OKP-7 sight attached to any Rifle is confusing

As the OKP-7 sight´s middle ( aiming zone ) is orientated left of the Iron sight ( rear sight and grain ) there are two fire lines right now ( which is absolute illogical because its confusing the operator ) wrong position OKP-7 zoom in Insurgency:Sanstorm I never saw this transposed OKP-7 variant in real life . In this setup you would not hit a target except on the crossing point of the two sight lines. ---> wrong position OKP-7 position Escape from Tarkov

The OKP-7 should be in the same vertical line with the Iron sight and the weapon barrel to be able to hit the target correct.
It should be like this : Correct aiming position with the actual OKP-7 alt text
or like this Correct OKP-7 position or like shown in this video
Youtube Video

Aiming sights always are on the same vertical line as the barrel of the weapon ( just as the iron sight is )
There are exactly two points where the bullet hits the target on aiming point in the attached weapon sight : First the bullet travels up when leaving the barrel and then drops after several hundred meters
( the projectile flies a ballistic curve ) ( same rule for any barrel of any weapon )

So why did you implement sideways deviation ?

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

I don't think I clearly understood all of what you say, but have in mind that while aiming your bullets don't come out of the barrel of the gun, but out of the middle of your sight (or out of your character's eyes). While hip-firing, bullets come out of your character's hips, again, not out of the barrel of the gun.

@dootybooty
What ? Why should the bullet come out of the eye or hip ?
LOL

Sorry for my english , its not my native language. What did you not understand ?
The OKP-7 sights position left of the iron sight is not logic in this game.
It must be alligned in the same line with the iron sight and the weapon barrel or you will have horizontal deviation of the projectile.

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

That's not how sights work... it only needs to be parallel to the line of fire.
Look at a Bren MG sight, it's offset to the left and perfectly functional.

Also, the reflex sight is independent from the iron sight, the alignment is made through optical properties of the lenses, instead of two-point like with an iron sight.

last edited by Choucram

It's alright to not be familiar with every weapon sight in production, but try using google before calling something "not logic".
The OKP-7 shown in game on the AK rifles uses the receiver left side dovetail mount.
It's a real thing.
It mounts the optic slightly to the left, yes. (<1 inch)
It works fine.
It holds zero.
It works well enough that the real life Russian military ISSUED IT TO THEIR FORCES.

Read more, and pictures: http://russianoptics.net/okp7.html

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As for Tarkov, it has both the dovetail and picatinny rail versions of the sight.

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last edited by owner

This guy has never seen a weapon with a horizontally offset sight.
@choucram we're not going to be able to explain to him how weapon zeroing works.

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last edited by owner

@owner Yes the OKP-7/77 does have a slight left offset when using the RS mounting system, but the digital sight sits ABOVE the iron sights, currently in game it is too low and far left and does need to be adjusted.

As to your comment about the Russian Military using the sight... the general troops are NOT issued this sight, I have spoken with a few Russian military arms manufacturers about this sight (because I want to purchase one IRL, I really like these sights and I usually hate Russian stuff), their reports confirm other data sources that it's currently limited to FSB team deployment, mainly to Spetsnaz and other special teams within the FSB.

There are also 3 different reitcles that this sight can do, a centered dot, a circle and centered dot (similar to an illuminated PKAS reticle), as well as the bar & carrot sight (my personal favorite).

There are 4 version of the OKP-7 series if you really want to get technical.

2 for the OKP-7 & 2 for the OKP-77, both the OKP-7 and OKP-77 use the same collimator style and build but have different sight customization options with the 77 series having multiple color changing options. out of both there are the RS mounted versions (with the slight left offset for traditional AK's that do NOT include the AKSU as the mounting system is incompatible), then there is the railed system which can be mounted to either a picatinny system or a dovetail based on the version that you want manufactured, manufacture time is 1.5 - 2 months when ordered.

@gsg_9_lightning said in OKP-7 sight attached to any Rifle is confusing because it has technically wrong position:

Aiming sights always are on the same vertical line as the barrel of the weapon ( just as the iron sight is )

This sentence is is more painful each time I read it.

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last edited by owner

@spartan0536 If you want to get technical go ahead, I think you're still missing the point that our Bavarian friend here has never seen a dovetail mount and can't wrap his mind around the possibility of zeroing a sight both vertically and horizontally.

last edited by owner

@owner
Well, what can i say, your examples above show only a few out of hundreds of different weapons and aiming sights and technically they are not good concepts or designs.
You can zero any sight hortizontally and vertically. I understand your point, no need to be rude ! I dont like your arrogance !

You can zero any sight vertically AND horizontaly to only one specific distance. Let´s say you zero that AK sight to a target which is 150 Meters away ( which is a common rifle distance in combat situations ).
Now imagine you are trying to shoot a little target which is only 50 meters away.
When you pull the trigger and the projectile leaves the barrel and it flies on the right side of your aiming point ( sight line )... after exactly 150 meters it crosses the line of sight and after that distance it flies on the left sight of sight line. So you have to compensate the deviation for targets which are closer than 150 meters and also which are further away than 150 meters.

The following picture might give you guys a clearer understanding what i am talking about.
Its shows the same problem on vertical : concept of trajectory
Article with details of trajectory :

What i dont understand is that you guys cannot imagine what i am talking about. Not sure how old you guys are and how much experiance you have with real weapons, but be sure that i am 47 and i saw a lot of weapons in my life and fired may be 20-25 different Pistols and Rifles on shooting ranges.
That might not be much in comparison to how many different weapons an american adult weapon enthusiast fired in his life on shooting ranges (as the americans have easier acces to weapons by law).
So be sure i know very well what i am talking about !

I personally would NOT go into a battle ( where my life and my comarades lifes depend on the precision of the used weapons ) with a weapon sight that not only has to be corrected in vertical line depending on the distance of the target, but also additionally in horizontal. All i am saying is that the concept of mounting a weapon sight left or right of the barrel line is causing extra deviation which has to be calculated and compensated.

Anyway the game does not calculate bullet trajectory, so my arguments only count for real weapons and their sights. If you want to hit precisely very little targets it is neccessary to reduce the deviation factors to a minimum. Your pictures of RPG/Panzerfaust are something very different. Bigger targets , closer distances. The deviation is acceptable in these situations.
And the antiaircraft gun uses tracer ammunition which is used to aim on the aircraft ( very far away ) instead of the crosshair. It is only a rough direction of fire for such weapon systems.
Ridiculous to post them here as contra arguments.

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

I don't have to imagine any of this I've shot and zeroed AR-15s and bolt action rifles with horizontally offset optics.

@gsg_9_lightning said

Well, what can i say, your examples above show only a few out of hundreds of different weapons and aiming sights and technically they are not good concepts or designs.

The concept works. Its repeated historical use and ongoing use would disagree with your argument.
The fact you weren't familiar with this prior to this thread really undercuts your credibility.

@gsg_9_lightning said

You can zero any sight hortizontally and vertically. I understand your point, no need to be rude ! But you can zero that sight horizontaly to only one specific distance.

Yea. And anything inside that distance would result in a hit slightly to the right. The sights on the Bren gun for example are mounted ~1inch horizontally to the left of the bore axis. Zero that weapon to 300m and fire it at a 150m target: your impact is ~0.5inches right of your gunsight. So 1-300m your horizontal "margin of error" is 0.0 - 1.0 inches ... this is acceptable for a military firearm. Zero the rifle to 600m and the "margin of error" is still 0.0 - 1.0 inches for 1-600M. This is negligible. Do you understand this concept? An error so small it effectively doesn't matter for a rifle that on average shoots 2-4 MOA?

@gsg_9_lightning said

Not sure how old you guys are and how much experiance you have with real weapons...

I'm 30. I've been shooting for 15 years in the US and Canada as a civilian, and with members of both country's police and armed forces on private ranges.
I don't normally feel the need to discuss this online but you've chosen to insinuate something else.

@gsg_9_lightning said

All i am saying is that the concept of mounting a weapon sight left or right of the barrel line is causing extra deviation which has to be calculated and compensated.

It's an AK, not the space shuttle.

@gsg_9_lightning said

I personally would NOT go into a battle ( where my life and my comarades lifes depend on the precision of the used weapons ) with a weapon sight that not only has to be corrected in vertical line depending on the distance of the target, but also additionally in horizontal.

You won't go into battle, that's why you play Insurgency.
If by some miracle you ever did and found an AK with a dovetail mounted OKP-7 lying on the ground you'd be a fool not to pick it up.
I don't know what kind of FBI Hostage rescue scenario you've imagined the OKP-7 was designed for, but it was meant to shoot deer, and then the FSB decided to stick in on their AKs, and those guy's aren't exactly known for getting all the civilians out alive.

Like I said earlier: its alright that you've never seen the OKP-7 sight before, and you've never seen a rifle with a horizontally offset optic before, but please use google before making a thread about how they are "not logic".

Oh man, the stereotype about certain nationalities and precision engineering seems true.
(As well that they shouldn't be allowed firearms)

last edited by owner

@owner
Now you are really getting personal. Your arrogance seems limitless. I really don´t like the way you communicate.

You are admitting in spartan0536 post : "The more I look at it in game the more I agree. The sight is mounted just slightly too far to the left." and you refer to the OKP-7 optics

That is all i wanted.

You think that the fact i was´t familiar with the real OPK-7 undercuts my credibility, it´s just your opinion.
All i am saying in this thread is that the optics is sligtly off and it would be nice if the developers would correct that.

Especially for you .. the picture i linked in my first post : Correct OKP-7 Position
This is the logic and correct position of a weapon sight ( same vertical line as the iron sight and weapon barrel )
If this is a later iteration of the OKP-7 then it is underlining my arguments, that the horizontal deviation was too big in the former variant and now the producer reacted and chose a more precise and logic position for the optics.

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

@Spartan0536 was right, the model is slightly off.

You on the otherhand clearly don't know what you're talking about.
You've created a thread to complain about something you don't understand, repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance on the topic and then, like some kind of firearms-Moses descending from the mountain with his stone tablets in hand, declared the rule that optical sights MUST be mounted directly above the rifle bore axis.

@gsg_9_lightning said

Your arrogance seems limitless.

Coming from the guy who tried to argue "I'm 47 and you guy's don't know firearms, trust me"

@gsg_9_lightning said

You are rude.

I have been rude. It felt good.
Please go back to making clocks and expensive automobiles.

last edited by owner

Do we need to post it again?

Hey look!

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Its real!

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Its really mounted on the side!

Apparently this design is nightmare inducing for BMW engineers who sometimes play video games.

I love the fact we've getting a modern shooter with authentic Russian optical sights.
The Russians have produced so many weird and cool designs and frankly I'm sick of modern shooters with American barbie doll AKs and picatinny rail accessories.

last edited by owner

@owner said in OKP-7 sight attached to any Rifle is confusing because it has technically wrong position:

@Spartan0536 was right, the model is slightly off.

You on the otherhand clearly don't know what you're talking about.

That is only your poor hillbilly opinion 😉

You've created a thread to complain about something , repeatedly demonstrated good knowledge on the topic and then, like some kind of firearms-Moses descending from the mountain with his Samsung tablets in hand, declared the rule that optical sights MUST be mounted directly above the rifle bore axis.

Yes, because i am right with my arguments AND i corrected your sentence above to the correct form ( read again and think about ! ).

@gsg_9_lightning said

Your arrogance seems limitless.

Coming from the guy who tried to argue "I'm 47 and you guy's don't know firearms, trust me"

Never said that you don´t know about firearms

@gsg_9_lightning said

You are rude.

I have been rude. It felt good.

You feel good to be rude because your arguments don´t win. Seems to be one of the bad sides of your character.

Please go back to making clocks and expensive automobiles.

No thank you i leave that to the experts.
But it is interesting that you assume that i am working in that branch , thank you for that compliment.

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

Please stop.
It's real.
Just.
Stop.
You didn't know what it was and you complained.
Now you know its real.
You can stop.
The accuracy argument fundamentally misunderstands the AK's already limited accuracy.
But that's fine, because you've never shot an AK.
And you've never used a collimator sight.
And you're not a weird military nerd like me who spends his free time reading up about optical sights that he'll never own.
Otherwise you'd have understood what you were looking at in game.
But its fine.
Now you know.
And you can stop.

last edited by owner

I really would like to drink a beer or two with you in a bar and make peace with you owner. Just relax and be cool 😉

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

Dude add me on steam. We should play.

Too many owner´s on steam, didn´t find you, i invite you to add me instead.
There is only one GSG_9_LIGHTNING in this universe LOL 😉

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

Just in case anyone here cares (likely not), my experience with firearms including full auto and suppressors. I have used many different sights and mounts on a wide variety of firearms. I even write ballistics code for ArmA III's modding community.

As it has been agreed the OKP-7 sight is slightly off, it annoys me as I am OCD about stuff like that, but it should be easily fixed before launch.

I believe in terms of shooting within Insurgency Sandstorm that the bullets are generated from eye point and not hip or barrel. In fact I am almost sure of it based on the gameplay. Games work differently in mechanics than IRL. IRL bullets come from the barrel, in games it's primarily from the eye point, some games have bullets come from the barrel, ArmA being one of them and that has it's own slew of issues to deal with.

AK's are only inaccurate due to their design, a Valmet or Galil is pretty much a perfected AK and due to the design differences they largely have eliminated the accuracy issues surrounding Kalashnikov rifles.

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