Now the hitreg is patched can we please get the TTK addressed?

@derpydays said in Now the hitreg is patched can we please get the TTK addressed?:

its irritating to know the fact that most of the people that don't like low TTK have barely played insurgency or haven't spent time to understanding its core mechanics.

the mechanics that insurgency 2 had has kept the game alive since launch with a pretty decent playerbase for 4 years compared to other tactical shooters of its caliber. Why drastically change it from the identity it was well known for when it sat well with the community and managed to get a 90% very positive reviews within a span of 4 years?

I can get why some people want high TTK and I know there are certain games that just don't sit so well for low TTK, but why try drastically change something that's been fine for the core playerbase that's been dedicated enough for the past 4 years? Not only just them playing the game, but also even creating community generated content for such an old game-community content that's pretty good looking in game.

Me, @Benz, @biass and a lot of other (sorry guys for not remember your names on the spot right now while writing! You know who you are!) have already broken down the CORE MECHANICS into little pieces and analyzed it and proven why some things work and some things do not. All that we have said is yet to be unproven by logic and reasoning, there are only opinions that "I like 1-hit kills better". Which is fine, it's your preference, but that is ignoring game balance.

Sandstorm basically has a TTK of 2 hits to kill, so there cannot be an objective claim that the TTK is high. Now there's only the people left who want 1-hit kills, who are complaining about TTK. They compare INS2 AP ammo meta to Sandstorm that has no AP ammo.

They are comparing apples to oranges. And they want 1-hit kills no matter what

They say they want balance, yet they want 1-hit kills that break the balance.

They say they want a better game, yet they want the game to made the same as INS2.

They say they want 1-hit kills because they die in-game, yet they will die faster when 1-hit kills is implemented.

They say they want to make all guns viable with 1-hit kills, yet they will only make a single weapon the most viable.

They say that game is currently downgraded from source because of TTK (which is 2 hits), yet 1 hit-kills would downgrade the game more by making it more simple by turning multiple skill areas insignificant.

They say that they want the game to be tactical, yet 1-hit kills dumbs down the tactical aspect of the game.

List goes on. They don't want 1-hit kills for the reasons they say, they just want it. I also notice that it's the same 3-4 guys always promoting 1-hit kills, while there are more people who are agreeing on the points why it shouldn't be implemented.

I sure hope the devs are reading the conversations on this forum and taking notes, so that they can base their decision on as much knowledge as possible.

last edited by jensiii

Current State :

Bolt Action =
You fire a shot - Wait for the delay - You fire another shot - It takes about 2 seconds to kill a person.

Full-Auto =
You fire 2~4 bullets continuously - It takes less than 0.5 seconds to kill a person.

When you use Bolt-Action , you must aim carefully.
When you use Full-Auto , you can just spray your bullets.
The Result = Full-Auto still kills faster even if you spray your bullets.
This is wrong. This is not fair. This is not balanced.

The Damage Difference should be :
Full-Auto = 40%
Semi-Auto = 70%
Bolt-Action = 100%

For Example :

If a Full-Auto weapon does 40 damage and fires 5 bullets per second , this Full-Auto weapon can do 200 damage per second.
40 x 5 = 200

If a Semi-Auto weapon does 70 damage and fires 2 bullets per second , this Semi-Auto weapon can do 140 damage per second.
70 x 2 = 140

If a Bolt-Action weapon does 100 damage and fires 1 bullet per second , this Bolt-Action weapon can do 100 damage per second.
100 x 1 = 100

Currently , Full-Auto can do superior damage and Full-Auto always kills faster at any range.
Even at long range , Full-Auto kills faster.
Currently , pressing down the left mouse button works well because the recoil is too weak.
This is why Full-Auto recoil needs to be increased and Full-Auto accuracy needs to be decreased.
Currently , Full-Auto recoil is too low and Full-Auto accuracy is too high.
In order to bring up the skill level ceiling , Full-Auto needs more recoil.
Currently , handling Full-Auto is too easy because Full-Auto does not have enough recoil.
There should be more penalty for pressing down left mouse button.
Currently , there is no reason to choose Bolt-Action over Full-Auto.
If the developers are planning to lower the TTK , Bolt-Action should get lower TTK before anything else.


Proposal =

  1. Buff Bolt-Action ( Increase Damage and Speed Up Animation )

    or

  2. Nerf Full-Auto ( Increase Recoil and Decrease Accuracy )

last edited by Nick Kim

Very unfun gunplay when there's no lethality.

I was running along on Canyon and got shot by a sniper (did not die from it), saw the red hit marker and started bunny hopping without a care in the world to cover, 15 seconds later I close the distance and full auto spray into the sniper killing him.

Playing Sandstorm honestly makes me miss Panj, in terms of traversing the map being mindful of snipers. There's none of that in Sandstorm.

last edited by Slazenger

@slazenger problem you described is caused by lack of tagging and bunnyhopping even being possible. So it's movement mechanics issue. How a movement mechanics issue is fixed by tweaking shooting mechanics?

you can't bunnyhop in this game...

not to mention this example says nothing. He could have been hit in the arm...did the enemy sniper have a long barrel? What range was the enemy sniper? Did he wear armor etc. etc. pp.

It's another generalized example to push a weird agenda.

last edited by Benz

@jensiii Actually the problem was caused by the lack of lethality, as I said, which caused the sniper to not kill me in 1 shot.

@slazenger so you think there is nothing in movement mechanics that need fixing? But TTK is broken and that needs to be fixed? Do you agree or disagree, that movement mechanics have a big effect on how these situations turn out?

You see, if there was tagging and you couldn't bunnyhop (I don't know if you can really, I haven't tried), the sniper would've gotten an easy second hit. Do you agree or disagree on that?

I do agree on, that a proper sniperrifle in the game should have the power to really stop a player and even kill on 1 hit. But like @Benz mentioned. Your example is too generalized with a lot of information missing, like the actual weapon used.

Let me just shut this down right now.

Is time to kill a problem? Yes. Yes it is.

Does TTK need to be decreased? Absolutely not. In fact, it needs an increase, if anything.

Right now, when comparing Heavy Armor to someone without armor, Heavy Armor saves you from ten guns. Sandstorm has forty guns and Heavy Armor only saves you from ten, and three of those guns one-shot Heavy Armor with a Long Barrel equipped at close range.

In CQB, Heavy Armor always saves you from one extra shot from these weapons:
-> M9

-> Hi-Power

-> Glock 17

-> Tariq

-> Uzi

-> MP7

In CQB, Heavy Armor saves you from one extra shot of these weapons without a Long Barrel attachment:

-> G3A3

-> FAL

-> M14 EBR

Heavy Armor saves you from two shots of a:

-> M24 (Yep. This shit is worse than a Colt .45)

For every other gun (in CQB) TTK is exactly the same with or without armor. Armor needs to get back it's original armor values and receive a pretty strong reduction in movement speed while equipped.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@jensiii

so you think there is nothing in movement mechanics that need fixing?

Of course it needs fixing. The reason in the first place I was sprinting out in the open was because of the absurdly big maps where you have to run 200 meters (Canyon) to one of the objectives. Second came the knowledge that I won't die from a single, lethal shot to the chest. Thirdly came the bad movement speed that let's me sprint too fast to be fair at all.

Tagging comes after the fact, the fact that I was shot and didn't even die when I should of. I would like tagging or some form of it if it did hit my limbs, but first and foremost before that, I need to be able to die in 1 shot.

  • Maps need to be made smaller
  • Movement (sprint) needs to be made slower
  • Weapon lethality needs to be increased

@slazenger said in Now the hitreg is patched can we please get the TTK addressed?:

@jensiii

so you think there is nothing in movement mechanics that need fixing?

Of course it needs fixing. The reason in the first place I was sprinting out in the open was because of the absurdly big maps where you have to run 200 meters (Canyon) to one of the objectives. Second came the knowledge that I won't die from a single, lethal shot to the chest. Thirdly came the bad movement speed that let's me sprint too fast to be fair at all.

Tagging comes after the fact, the fact that I was shot and didn't even die when I should of. I would like tagging or some form of it if it did hit my limbs, but first and foremost before that, I need to be able to die in 1 shot.

  • Maps need to be made smaller
  • Movement (sprint) needs to be made slower
  • Weapon lethality needs to be increased

Reading your previous posts about a bolt-action sniper not killing you in one hit, were you Security or Insurgent? The Security M24 is currently a waste of two supply as it can't even one-shot Light Armor without a Long Barrel, and even then you'll live past about ten meters.

@slazenger Then it should've fuckin killed you unless maybe the shot hit your lower arm or lower leg / foot. NWI said they fixed bullet penetration on limbs so it also must've missed your torso. That's the only thing I can think of.

I'm gonna actually test the Mosin and maybe a few other guns at medium and long range.

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