A big laundry list of changes I really want

Fire support:

Firstly I think fire support should not use binoculars, it's way to easy and precise. I think it would be much better if changed to plotting or typing coordinates on the map, much as they are in real life, or at least a flare gun or colored smoke, it would be way more authentic and less spammy.

I also think that the observer should have to call in the support and not just stand by the commander, maybe an option in the comms wheel or an animation of actually calling it (possibly even needing to confirm the commanders coordinates) would really improve the annoying game of tag between the two classes.

Any of these would be welcome changes because right now fire support very powerful and has pretty much zero margin for error.

Supply:

The game gives way to many supply points. Every single person now runs heavy armor, two grenades and a scoped rifle. Supply points need to be toned way down. Whereas in source you had to sacrifice say armor for a scope or a scope for grenades, here I feel like I often have excess points even after equipping armor and several explosives.

Also I don't really understand why standard issue weapons cost so much, the AKM, M4 and M16 should be the cheapest weapons, not the most expensive.

Armor:
Needs to be nerfed, source had good balanced armor. Right now the TTK almost feels like BF3 or 4 when using assault rifles, and because every person runs heavy armor it is a real issue. Also helmets should either be incorporated into armor or an optional head piece for security.

Customization:

Really not a fan of the insurgents customization. They honestly remind me more of the Russian mafia than an Iraqi insurgent group. Insurgents need to be more militarized, make them look like actual insurgents or terrorists not euro trash with Adidas or flannel.

Weapons:
Really think the recoil needs to be toned down, it's almost unrealistically high. I think source had very well balanced recoil, that would be much better than what we have now.

I don't know if Unreal will allow it but instant or very fast ADS would be a welcome change and reduced weapon sway would be nice.

Reload speeds are very slow, another case where I think source works better, the reload time there was much better.

We need more weapons, galil, ump, mp5, mk11, ac556, RPK, maybe even the M240b or SVT-40. I think every class needs at least 2 guns, and the machine gunners only have 1. I also don't like how there are only 2 sub machine guns in the game when source had 4. More machine guns, DMRs and the galil as well.

I also think tear gas would be a great addition, maybe it makes your vision 50% more blurry or fuzzy or something, if it could also be used in grenade launchers I think gas masks would actually be useful.

Maps:
Bring back some of the classics! maybe burhiz, tell, embassy or sinjar! some of the old maps are really really good and I'd love to see them added.

Other:

The vaulting and standing up animations are painfully slow, make it a realistic speed.

The security team's trucks need to be re skinned as Humvees

also the voice acting is a little dramatic and the lighting is to cinematic, I really wish the game looked and felt like a film reel of the Iraq war, immersion would be top notch.

@guacamole said in A big laundry list of changes I really want:

Armor:
Needs to be nerfed, source had good balanced armor. Right now the TTK almost feels like BF3 or 4 when using assault rifles, and because every person runs heavy armor it is a real issue. Also helmets should either be incorporated into armor or an optional head piece for security.

Why are people still saying this when it's objectively not true?
https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/29636/new-damage-models-are-horrendously-broken?page=1
https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/29636/new-damage-models-are-horrendously-broken/51

Old maps will probably take some work to port if they do since we're on UT4 now. Also they'd have to tweak them a bit to allow for vehicles and firesupport. A lot of the fire support options would be too insane on the building-sparse maps and too useless on the urban ones.

last edited by Doghead

@guacamole said in A big laundry list of changes I really want:

Armor:
Needs to be nerfed, source had good balanced armor. Right now the TTK almost feels like BF3 or 4 when using assault rifles, and because every person runs heavy armor it is a real issue. Also helmets should either be incorporated into armor or an optional head piece for security.

This is false and it has been proven many times. Source didn't have balance, AP ammo was a must. Last patch fixed hitreg which was the real "TTK" issue that people where having. Now there are still left people who want everything to be 1-hit kills, but that has also been proven to break the balance.

I use M4 and AK74 most of the time and it takes 2 hits to take down a player. Is that what you mean with "BF3 or 4"-like TTK?

I mostly agree with many of your points, and some I don't think would harm the game. But I respectfully disagree with some of your opinions.
Since the armor part of my opinion was already answered by others, I'd like to mention 2 other things:

  1. the vaulting speed I think is rather realistic. But I'd say the height of vaulting could increase, but slower (Squad - the game has done a very good vaulting system, but I don't Insurgency needs vaulting that high, perhaps a bit less or about chest height would be fine). It is rather difficult to vault with so much gear. Potentially if you reduce your weight?

  2. I think the ADS is comically fast as it is, especially for heavier weapons such as rifles, MGs, rocket launchers, grenade launcher mounted rifles etc. I'd understand if it was an SMG or a pistol, but pulling a 10+ Kg Machine gun with basically your left hand alone shouldn't be snappy, and it encourages running and gunning like COD or BF, and is probably one of the reasons why people use LMGs like it's a sub-machine gun.
    And this adds to the weapons sway bit, a heavier weapon should have more weapon sway, especially for MGs while not bipoded, since it also encourages run and gun with the weapon and doesn't balance out. Of course, the shorter barrel weapons such as pistols and SMGs would have less sway, but less accuracy and power.

  3. I think the recoil is a little exaggerated, but I would like a little more "punch" to it than it currently is. I think Ins2 had more recoil.

For additional weapons,
I think MG42 and RPK for Ins MG, ppsh-41 and mac10 for SMG; M60 and perhaps a low mag MG for Sec MGs, MP5 for SMG would be nice additions.

  1. Sinjar and burhiz were terrible maps.

@doghead in my experience the TTK is very slow, may be a bug that it's too fast for you or too slow for me IDK, just my observation. Also I've heard that a bunch of people from the modding community have started making old maps in unreal and I think the devs commented on this at E3.

This is an assumption on my part, but I think a part of the reason supply points are so high is due to this being a beta. I figure the supply point total is going to be lowered on full release.

@guacamole said in A big laundry list of changes I really want:

Weapons:
Really think the recoil needs to be toned down, it's almost unrealistically high. I think source had very well balanced recoil, that would be much better than what we have now.

I don't know if Unreal will allow it but instant or very fast ADS would be a welcome change and reduced weapon sway would be nice.

Reload speeds are very slow, another case where I think source works better, the reload time there was much better.

Agree with most of what you said, except these three.

I think that these changes could be done in an arcade mode, but the current mechanics you reference are generally more "realistic" than Ins 2014. But, do those changes make the game better, that's up for discussion.

I think that for competitive, these might work, but it would break up tactical teamplay even more in coop and versus.

Recoil:
Definitely there needs to be more recoil, perhaps reproducible and predictable recoil patterns. The recoil reduction bonus you get when shooting crouched should be nerfed. Also the time it takes for the recoil reduction bonus to kick in after crouching should kick in a little later so you can't suddenly stop sprinting, instantly crouch and get laser beam accuracy.

Movement:
I feel that acceleration still needs to be overall lowered.

Supply:
I agree that you are given way too many supply points. The one thing missing in this game is that you were given Supply Points during the game like at the end of a round / completing an objective. Maybe they could make it that you start off with less total supply points but deeper into a match you'd get extra supply points that would add up to how much you get now. So maybe every time a Push objective is captured both teams get extra supply and in firefight after each round you'd get some.

Armour:
Perhaps reducing the effectiveness of Heavy armor isn't the only way to go about it. If heavy armor is less appealing in every other category than survivability (which it really should be the only thing) then less people will take it and naturally produce a high TTK environment. Further increase armor attributes like it's impact on movement/speed/acceleration, supply cost (mixed in with the aforementioned early supply point limitation could make it a big portion of your supply points early on) etc.

Weapons:
Definitely need the weapons you mentioned; Galili, MP5, AC556/Ruger Mini-14, UMP45, SIG 552 Commando, M1014/Benelli M4 Shotgun, RPK/RPD, M60, M240B.

Edit: MG42, MAC-10 agreed Insurgent side weapon suggestions. Perhaps the HK21 (50 round drum mag for that suggested 'low-mag' Sec MG weapon) and agreed that ADS speed should be reduced.

last edited by Jarple

@guacamole said in A big laundry list of changes I really want:

Weapons:
Really think the recoil needs to be toned down, it's almost unrealistically high. I think source had very well balanced recoil, that would be much better than what we have now.

I don't know if Unreal will allow it but instant or very fast ADS would be a welcome change and reduced weapon sway would be nice.

Reload speeds are very slow, another case where I think source works better, the reload time there was much better.

Recoil right now seems pretty realistic. I have very little experience with belt-fed machine guns, so I can only make a guess at those, but on the whole everything feels very realistic to my experience. The 5.56mm rifles might even be a bit low for recoil right now, especially in full auto.

Aiming speed is weird in most games versus reality. In real life aim speed with iron sights is going to be much slower than with a 1X optic, and is usually even slower with pistols. To really mimic reality the 1X optics should be fastest, with irons and higher magnification scopes being on the slower end.

Reload speeds right now are spot on. It's the most realistic modeling of reloading in any game I've ever played. Most games make firearm reloading comically fast. INS2 reloads were too slow when under fire, the introduction of the fast reload mechanic in Sandstorm has totally fixed this issue for me.

@maa_bunny you haven't reloaded the non-typical magazine fed guns. E.g. Bolt action, Pump action, belt fed MG. And even the Mag fed ones are slower than real life, but I don't mind that too much. The ones I've mentioned? They seem more fitting for an instruction video

@io543 I've spent almost no time with the bolt-action rifles in Sandstorm, so, no, I can't speak to those. I've spent very limited time with shotguns, but they don't seem too bad.

LMG reloads are appropriately clumsy and slow to real life, they seem spot on to me. Traditional magazine fed rifles are great, and exactly what I would expect from combat reloads.

@maa_bunny in my limited experience with a handful of full auto weapons I think the vertical recoil really is not that high for the AR style rifles, and is not even that bad for AKMs. From what I experienced, imo the vertical recoil of these guns is not anywhere as sever as in the game. I know I constantly praise source, but I think it had much more realistic recoil in regards to the first few shots are on target and then your aim is thrown off. I think the problem lies in the fact that games have no way to simulate recoil that goes directly into your shoulder, which throws about your aim, but does not necessarily raise the muzzle.

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