Changes I'd love to see.

First off if the
Armor values If they're going to stay the same, I'd love there to be an injury system, such as Escape from Tarkov. Nothing is more aggravating than shooting an AI/Player and the only ill effect from have a 7.62 his their breastplate is a hit indicator on the victims screen. I'd love to hear an audible gasp for air or better flinching implemented to reduce the chance of accurate returning fire to the shooter. The penalty should be severe even though you plates just caught a round. Because let's be honest here you're gonna get knocked on your ass when you take a round to the plate.
Youtube Video

COOP AI
This is the games chance to shine, good COOP will be this games major standout from the rest of the shooters on the market. Personally I would love to see the AI move like a team instead of mindless drones running to an objective. AI should be worked on to surround objectives they're attacking, utilize cover and more importantly portray middle eastern combat. I find it sad enough the devs opted out of portraying real life events. We want immersion and we want realism. It is not by any means hard to see hours of combat footage for an example of combat in the middle east. The insurgent AI should act as real life counterparts. As in indiscriminately shooting, no armor but vast in numbers. Also add more combat chatter I'd love to hear Alloha Snackbars and Tackbirs but I'm doubtful that'd appease the PC police.
Youtube Video

PVP Match Length
1 round per faction is not long enough, I think a minimum of 2 rounds per side would be perfect.

Take notes from RO2
I am a big Rising Storm fan, and the sustained combat is very addictive. You guys have the ground work all set up fro large scale battles. Make some bigger maps, add some more vehicles and make a freaking conquest game mode! This would make the game so much more fun and bring in so many players.

@Slazenger @TulioTTR @Whitby @GrotesqueShadow I would like hear your comments about TTK & heavy armor on the first video. let's tag @Benz and @biass also.

Sorry @Redmond91 for hijacking, I couldn't resist. You have good suggestions though 🙂 I don't know about injury system, but being hit should have a penalty. I also hope that there will be some work on AI, either by devs or modding.

last edited by jensiii

@jensiii well, arguing for low TTK has nothing to do with realism 😉 .

@jensiii I'm only interested in fun gamedesign, not in "simulation" of reality. Reality is a terrible place that I want to get away from in gaming. So... I don't care how good the real vests are. But from a gamedesign perspective - if this was a game - at least the bullet does "something". Impactful feedback for the hit is provided and it has consequences for the guy that was hit. Right now neither are the case in INS:SS

On the official twitter account NWI retweeted this video:

Youtube Video

I only watched the first match in that video and I was contemplating making a thread with that video and the question "Is this how I am supposed to play this game?". I mean since NWI shared it, that must mean they think it is a good representation of what is fun about their game, right? If they thought the opposite, they wouldn't share it, right?! To me that looks almost like a more immersive version of Call of Duty. Spamming at least 4 shots when he sees an enemy, hipfire spray, a dropshot with going prone even...

But you know, I guess I've said all I want and need to say on the matter, I don't think I'll be part of this discussion in the future. I'm trying to unlearn how I'm used to play the game and get used to aiming for heads so that I can tank a shot with my heavy vest while I take my time to aim for the head or just hipfire spray at head height when I'm indoors. At least with only headshots doing instakills, I'll know if the first bullet drops someone it likely was a headshot. I think I've even seen a player who goes pistol only. He seems to use flashbangs and then dump half a mag per enemy as fast as he can.

@grotesqueshadow
Agreed.

It appears that these days every fps has some people that want to push it into a direction that they think is realistic. I think this is pointless when the game itself has no own claims towards the same level or realism at all. Back in the mod days of Insurgency it had features that were more realistic than other popular fps at the time. Those times are long gone and I don't think that Sandstorm is more "realistic" than Battlefield these days. This is not a problem to me, since I never felt that Insurgency is supposed to be realistic.

Insurgency: Sandstorm is a team-based, tactical FPS based on lethal close quarters combat and objective-oriented multiplayer gameplay. Experience the intensity of modern combat where skill is rewarded, and teamwork wins the fight.

This is the official description of the game on steam.

If you always follow realism as argument you will get nowhere. Sure armor can stop bullets but then you need to properly simulate the player going to hospital of a field hospital because while he survived a hit, he will be unable to fight properly for days or even weeks.

Making good AI is very hard and very expensive. There are reasons why even big devs and publishers dont have "good" AI.

last edited by MeFirst

@grotesqueshadow said in Changes I'd love to see.:

@jensiii I'm only interested in fun gamedesign, not in "simulation" of reality. Reality is a terrible place that I want to get away from in gaming. So... I don't care how good the real vests are. But from a gamedesign perspective - if this was a game - at least the bullet does "something". Impactful feedback for the hit is provided and it has consequences for the guy that was hit. Right now neither are the case in INS:SS

On the official twitter account NWI retweeted this video:

Youtube Video

I only watched the first match in that video and I was contemplating making a thread with that video and the question "Is this how I am supposed to play this game?". I mean since NWI shared it, that must mean they think it is a good representation of what is fun about their game, right? If they thought the opposite, they wouldn't share it, right?! To me that looks almost like a more immersive version of Call of Duty. Spamming at least 4 shots when he sees an enemy, hipfire spray, a dropshot with going prone even...

my thoughts exactly. I was really upset when they shared it, so much that I refunded the game. If you guys are unhappy with the directoon the game is going, you should do as me and speak with your wallets.

@TulioTTR @GrotesqueShadow

Spamming at least 4 shots when he sees an enemy, hipfire spray, a dropshot with going prone even...

So? Yes, he spams 4 shots multiple times from hipfire with a semi auto weapon. He misses a ton. What's that supposed to tell us? One thing: he doesn't even bother aiming. He just sprays and prays. That has nothing to do with TTK, but all to do with bad players.

Look at the bots he is killing. Are those bots? Or humans? I can't tell. /s

He literally doesn't even bother aiming in those situations, cuz why would you?

Funny how with a higher TTK this would be less viable.

@redmond91

@redmond91 said in Changes I'd love to see.:

Escape from Tarkov.

Tarkov's system relies on the use of background consumables to make it actually work, something like losing a leg in tarkov is countered by burning the painkiller consumable, etc. Sandstorm doesn't have it, so it won't work here in my opinion.

Losing stamina on a hit however? that would stop people sprinting away from bullets, and be a way more superior way to introduce a penalty on damage that doesn't reward a player for missing (suppression) so i like that a lot.

@jensiii
I think that sniper should of equipped AP to make his gun more lethal.

As for total and complete 100% realism I never found that to be entertaining (I have yet to play WW3). Squad and Post Scriptim don't appeal to me either.

When I used to play battlefield my favorite things to do was shoot an rpg at the jets that would strafe my base spawn as I waited for a helicopter.
If I hit I'd see that big fat +500 damage and if I missed I'll whip out my tracer dart gun and fire it 500 meters into the air in front of the enemy jet and tag him, then my rpg would lock on and kill him for a big fat +499 damage.

Realistic or not the appeal of the gunplay in Insurgency2014 and day of Infamy was it's lethality. Which make it great and different from other FPS games.

@redmond91

I like your suggestions.

I totally agree with you.


My suggestion =

We really need more maps.

There should be Infantry-only maps and Vehicle-focused maps.

I would love to play big open field maps with more vehicles.

last edited by Nick Kim

@nick-kim Yes for the vehicle focused maps, but a separate game mode than what we already have!

Add blunt damage and fragmentation damage to armor. It will nerf it.

@grotesqueshadow said in Changes I'd love to see.:

@jensiii I'm only interested in fun gamedesign, not in "simulation" of reality. Reality is a terrible place that I want to get away from in gaming. So... I don't care how good the real vests are. But from a gamedesign perspective - if this was a game - at least the bullet does "something". Impactful feedback for the hit is provided and it has consequences for the guy that was hit. Right now neither are the case in INS:SS

On the official twitter account NWI retweeted this video:

Youtube Video

I only watched the first match in that video and I was contemplating making a thread with that video and the question "Is this how I am supposed to play this game?". I mean since NWI shared it, that must mean they think it is a good representation of what is fun about their game, right? If they thought the opposite, they wouldn't share it, right?! To me that looks almost like a more immersive version of Call of Duty. Spamming at least 4 shots when he sees an enemy, hipfire spray, a dropshot with going prone even...

But you know, I guess I've said all I want and need to say on the matter, I don't think I'll be part of this discussion in the future. I'm trying to unlearn how I'm used to play the game and get used to aiming for heads so that I can tank a shot with my heavy vest while I take my time to aim for the head or just hipfire spray at head height when I'm indoors. At least with only headshots doing instakills, I'll know if the first bullet drops someone it likely was a headshot. I think I've even seen a player who goes pistol only. He seems to use flashbangs and then dump half a mag per enemy as fast as he can.

Coop plays completely differently from PVP.

@slazenger said in Changes I'd love to see.:

Squad and Post Scriptim don't appeal to me either.

The things that bothered me most about Squad when I played it were too long TTK, poor performance, movement felt sluggish and almost impossible to play the game as a solo roamer. All of that is better in INS2014.

@tuliottr said in Changes I'd love to see.:

my thoughts exactly. I was really upset when they shared it, so much that I refunded the game. If you guys are unhappy with the directoon the game is going, you should do as me and speak with your wallets.

Sorry to hear that, this was not my intention. I do my best to judge the game as a value preposition that stands on its own. It certainly isn't the game that I wanted it to be, but I still see potential in it to be a better game for me than e.g. Squad. Time will tell...

@staryoshi06 said in Changes I'd love to see.:

Coop plays completely differently from PVP.

This is pvp, you can see it from the enemy voicechat icon (you can hear them when they are close enough I think), and the enemy team-attack warning in the log in the top-left corner. They are playing push, afaik that isn't available with bots yet.

@grotesqueshadow said in Changes I'd love to see.:

@slazenger said in Changes I'd love to see.:

Squad and Post Scriptim don't appeal to me either.

The things that bothered me most about Squad when I played it were too long TTK, poor performance, movement felt sluggish and almost impossible to play the game as a solo roamer. All of that is better in INS2014.

  1. The Performance of Squad has improved massively over the last 12 months. Squad now ironically runs way better on my pc than Insurgency Sandstorm does. Keep in mind that Squad has 80 players and not 16 and the maps are massive.

  2. TTK is a bit higher than in old Insurgency, but usually you can kill people with 2-3 Torso hits with every weapon. High Calibre Weapons (30cal, 50cal etc) will also completely kill you, meaning you cant get revived. For a time being this was also applied to headshots, but it did not add anything positive to the game.

  3. Squad has completely different goals and intentions. If you are trying to solo roam in Squad, then it is one of the few situations in which you actually play a game completely wrong. Not just because the developers have different intentions, but also because of the fundamental aspects on how the game itself works.

  4. Movement has been overhauled a couple of times and it is much better now. At the end of the day the game is however not designed to have the same speed as games like Insurgency or Battlefield.

@mefirst said in Changes I'd love to see.:

@grotesqueshadow said in Changes I'd love to see.:

@slazenger said in Changes I'd love to see.:

Squad and Post Scriptim don't appeal to me either.

The things that bothered me most about Squad when I played it were too long TTK, poor performance, movement felt sluggish and almost impossible to play the game as a solo roamer. All of that is better in INS2014.

  1. The Performance of Squad has improved massively over the last 12 months. Squad now ironically runs way better on my pc than Insurgency Sandstorm does. Keep in mind that Squad has 80 players and not 16 and the maps are massive.

  2. TTK is a bit higher than in old Insurgency, but usually you can kill people with 2-3 Torso hits with every weapon. High Calibre Weapons (30cal, 50cal etc) will also completely kill you, meaning you cant get revived. For a time being this was also applied to headshots, but it did not add anything positive to the game.

  3. Squad has completely different goals and intentions. If you are trying to solo roam in Squad, then it is one of the few situations in which you actually play a game completely wrong. Not just because the developers have different intentions, but also because of the fundamental aspects on how the game itself works.

  4. Movement has been overhauled a couple of times and it is much better now. At the end of the day the game is however not designed to have the same speed as games like Insurgency or Battlefield.

Agree with every point you made.

Squad is that type of game in which you can stay at a bridge, on an MG, for 30min. and shoot enemies that are about 500m-1km away in a big ass building and just blast on them for suppression and still end the round with 15 kills. It's that kind of game where an outsider would think "Omg you never kill something in this game!" Even though you got yourself a good amount of kills.

Squad came a long way since it started EA. I quite like hit to hop in, here and there.

@sirpenetrator
Squad also has a different meta-game. Player kills mean very little and individual kills have almost no effect on the outcome of a match. Most basic example is that a team will get -40 Tickets for loosing a flag they own. Set that into relation with the usual amount of kills people make in Squad. In Squad kills are more or less a tool to get the job done.

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