Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest by any calibers, 2 to the stomach from low caliber rounds (9x19, 9x18, 4.7x30)

@ctbear1996 low TTK literally limits playstyles.

@benz No, I'm not even going to argue about it with competitive nuts, and again, go play something else if you want a really "high ttk" game, low ttk is what made INS2 great.

Maybe there could be a “heart hitbox” that only exists of the player choose to go without armor. Just a small area on the left side of the chest that is a one hit kill with most rounds.

@ctbear1996 said in Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest:

@benz No, I'm not even going to argue about it with competitive nuts, and again, go play something else if you want a really "high ttk" game, low ttk is what made INS2 great.

I dont agree, high ttk is what made every weapon in insurgency source handle nearly the same. It became a choice about fire rate, recoil and sight preferences most of the time. It doesnt matter what you picked, youd probably have AP ammo and youd probably oneshot everyone.

At least armor almost works in this game, unless the guy has big boy bullets in his gun.

@ziggylata low TTK you mean.

It's ridiculous atm. You get freaking 1 shotted on mid-long range by a shotgun. Nice balance. Really smart. Shotgun being used as a bolt. Makes you think.

@benz said in Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest:

@ziggylata low TTK you mean.

It's ridiculous atm. You get freaking 1 shotted on mid-long range by a shotgun. Nice balance. Really smart. Shotgun being used as a bolt. Makes you think.

That is what I meant, and the problem isnt with shotguns its with flettchet shots. It loses less power and tears through armor, and if some of the spread hits your head on top of that its even stronger and likely to kill.

I dont think they need a nerf though, I think itd be best if they just cost more than slugs. (I talked about it in another thread but shotguns max effective range is actually anywhere from 50 to 100 meters and 100 meters is a pretty long distance.)

last edited by Ziggylata

My post is actually trying to make armor more useful lmao. I only suggested making unarmored target more vulnerable

@ctbear1996 said in Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest:

My post is actually trying to make armor more useful lmao. I only suggested making unarmored target more vulnerable

Its hard to say, bullets in the body are weird with smaller callibers especially, people sometimes taking multiple 5.56 and surviving and sometimes someone takes one and hes done. Theres really no good answer but 7.62 should probably always oneshot unarmored chest for sure.

@ziggylata Like I mentioned, different body parts, stomach takes 2 from small calibers, but chest should definitely be one (to simulate heart), and I fail to see how this change will lower some so-called "skill gap". I'm not suggesting to one-shot everything with armors, some people who are really into INS2 style low TTK would even disagree with me, but I guess Benz only saw "one-shot kill" on title

Edited the post, so hope nobody is going to yell at me for "but muh high ttk is skilled"

@ctbear1996 its funny to me how you fail to see that a faster TTK leads to armor being a necessity instead of being a choice, just like how AP was one in ins2. If i want to rely more on my aiming skills i will need to run heavy armor, because i dont wanna get lucked away by some camping, spraying dude with his uzi.

But yeah..go ahead... lower TTK pls. Will be fun.

@benz "IF I WANT TO RELY MORE ON MY AIMING SKILLS" LOL. "MUH SKILL"

@benz So without armor you can't rely on your aiming skill? Camper will always exist, no matter what, a skilled player does not need to worry about camper because they use tactics instead of rushing every objective like COD. Unless you are a bad player who always wants to be a hero, why worrying about campers? Also, no armor gives you more advantage to react, you are faster at running, faster at ADS (assume my suggestion is implemented).
For competitive, each team should get a different amount of supply points based on win/lose, you don't want to die fast? Get armor, everything comes with a price, you need to manage your supply points, which seems pretty competitive for me, just like CSGO. The first game would never succeed if everyone takes 5 shot to be killed, it's a feature of Insurgency, low TTK and tactical, you don't like it, feel free to move on. It's a successor, not a twitcher shooter specifically made for people like you.

last edited by ctbear1996

You're a designer for a large branding project and you decide that you need to contract an external photographer to create some imagery.

You're viewing a promising candidate when suddenly he lets slip he doesn't even know what a photo is in the first place.

Do you still hire that photographer?

No?

Then by that standard, why do you keep talking in this thread?

Do you really argue that the TTK is still high at the moment? (not referring to bolt action of course)

Coming from competitive Insurgency source (1.6k hours) I can barely see a difference. Semi-auto weapons are perfectly viable even against armored targets.

What is the point of having different levels of penetration and velocity if everything insta-kills with a single shot?

I am also one of the people that find the low TTK of the Source game refreshing compared to other shooters in the market but everything below the current TTK in Sandstorm would be ridiculous.

As far as the armor is concerned, my opinion is that we should have just Armor (not light and heavy) which should be tanking almost everything but with significant trade-offs. It should be used tactically (e.g. to play B and survive wallbangs) and not be a must-have.

Shotties must be nerfed as they are OP at the moment.

last edited by Bullet59

@ctbear1996 said in Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest by any calibers, 2 to the stomach from low caliber rounds (9x19, 9x18, 4.7x30):

My post is actually trying to make armor more useful lmao. I only suggested making unarmored target more vulnerable

Imo both needs to happen, though. Running around without any armor should have a trade-off of dying with at least one 5.56 and 7.62 shot, as right now you can tank one hit of either and still be alive even without armor.

Heavy Armor needs to add another shot to kill for 5.56 weapons, at least.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@ctbear1996 said in Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest by any calibers, 2 to the stomach from low caliber rounds (9x19, 9x18, 4.7x30):

@benz So without armor you can't rely on your aiming skill? Camper will always exist, no matter what, a skilled player does not need to worry about camper because they use tactics instead of rushing every objective like COD.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh... I don't know about that one. I can play tactiaclly and flank only to get popped by a guy who has absolutely no reason to be in the spot he's camping in.

@ctbear1996 said in Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest by any calibers, 2 to the stomach from low caliber rounds (9x19, 9x18, 4.7x30):

Unless you are a bad player who always wants to be a hero, why worrying about campers? Also, no armor gives you more advantage to react, you are faster at running, faster at ADS (assume my suggestion is implemented).

Currently, only one of these is a feature in the game, and movement speed most likely won't save your ass in a gunfight.

@biass said in Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest by any calibers, 2 to the stomach from low caliber rounds (9x19, 9x18, 4.7x30):

You're a designer for a large branding project and you decide that you need to contract an external photographer to create some imagery.

You're viewing a promising candidate when suddenly he lets slip he doesn't even know what a photo is in the first place.

Do you still hire that photographer?

No?

Then by that standard, why do you keep talking in this thread?

Because Game Design ~= Photography? What's the point of this metaphor when it literally doesn't apply to this situation at all?

@bullet59 said in Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest by any calibers, 2 to the stomach from low caliber rounds (9x19, 9x18, 4.7x30):

As far as the armor is concerned, my opinion is that we should have just Armor (not light and heavy) which should be tanking almost everything but with significant trade-offs. It should be used tactically (e.g. to play B and survive wallbangs) and not be a must-have.

I don't really know about this one. Different levels of armor is always going to exist. It's part of the design of Insurgency. Armor shouldn't make you a tank, either. It can provide a slight advantage but at the end of the day player skill > enemy equipment.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@bullet59 said in Unarmored target should always be one shot kill on the chest by any calibers, 2 to the stomach from low caliber rounds (9x19, 9x18, 4.7x30):

As far as the armor is concerned, my opinion is that we should have just Armor (not light and heavy) which should be tanking almost everything but with significant trade-offs. It should be used tactically (e.g. to play B and survive wallbangs) and not be a must-have.

I don't really know about this one. Different levels of armor is always going to exist. It's part of the design of Insurgency. Armor shouldn't make you a tank, either. It can provide a slight advantage but at the end of the day player skill > enemy equipment.

When saying tanking I don't mean surviving half a mag. from an M4A1 . I mean 2/3/4 * current TTK

last edited by Bullet59

No one ever played Ins:Source when it was a mod did they? Before the official release of the Insurgency game, the mod had a low TTK but without guarantees like everyone is asking for. I'm pretty sure the game actually had a random chance of dying from any bullet as a variable. It was to simulate shock more than anything. Someone might get lucky and take 2 rifle rounds to the chest, or someone gets hit in the foot and dies instantly (just like IRL). Snipers should be able to kill in 1 hit, but it shouldn't be a guarantee. Sometimes bullets do find their way through cracks and spaces in armor, sometimes they hit something solid and stop inside your pack. I miss the seemingly random chance of kills. I don't like this whole counting bullets to kill thing. Its never cut and dry, and it shouldn't be in game.

@biass Your logic just doesn't make any sense lmao