Playing ins:source since 2014 (4000 hours). Suggestion for sandstorm (TTK + AREA RESTRICTED + OTHERS)

@jensiii while the removal of armor wouldn't make sense, I wouldn't see an immersion problem in giving everyone the same armor. Then you can call it "armor" and make the realism folks happy while retaining Insurgency's gameplay.

@cyoce I would disagree that light and no armor should be the choice just so that people can get a faster time to kill as it kills realism in its place. while I understand there is no reaction to the body surviving the first shot they did implement the "tagging" effect which slows ppl down which is more than enough in my eyes. I wouldnt go into battle with no armor. I doubt you would too...

While I haven't done indepth testing it feels as armor is just a fat +50 vitality instead of being a defense that has a threshold that must be passed (penetration) to do full damage.

@jensiii Going into battle without AP breaks my immersion

@slazenger I agree on the "armour just gives you more health" part.
It would be better if armour protected you from any shot in the areas it covers before going useless.

It doesn't change much, but it would be a nice touch.

@slazenger said in Playing ins:source since 2014 (4000 hours). Suggestion for sandstorm (TTK + AREA RESTRICTED + OTHERS):

While I haven't done indepth testing it feels as armor is just a fat +50 vitality instead of being a defense that has a threshold that must be passed (penetration) to do full damage.

I'd imagine it works like Escape From Tarkov or something, where armor has a durability value and certain weapons compromise armor faster than others. That's just speculation, though.

Overall, I had terrible FPS and stuttering the day of the patch, but I guess the hotfix solved that somehow because it's pretty much gone now.

Recoil is now about the same as the Ins2014 weapons, honestly. It's not too difficult to control, and 5.56 weapons aren't a laser anymore like they used to be. Foregrip-bipods also seem like an interesting option now, because bipods do turn weapons into lasers (as it should IMO).

Sway seemed ridiculous before but now it doesn't seem that harsh.

Scopes honestly look like shit. I think high-quality scopes might be bugged, though, from what I've heard.

Grenade launchers are broken as hell but NWI definitely knows that by now.

AI is overall better, smarter, and use more tactics, although they throw grenades with ridiculous accuracy (and also chuck them like they're as common/cheap as Makarovs).

And goddamn, @cyoce back at it again with the "merge Heavy / Light Armor into one Armor option" topic. It doesn't make sense at all and New World's not gonna do it. There's really no point in discussing it if there's zero chance that NWI will change it.

@max80 I said give everyone the same armor, not remove armor

@marksmanmax In what way does it not make sense? No one has actually explained that.

@cyoce actually in a previous post you said “give everyone light armor or no armor options.” And I disagree. I get what you are saying and why I just dont agree. There are plenty of light and heavy armor options in the world and makes sense they would be in this game. I would like to see the plates used in heavy armor take damage after a while because the ceramic plates in many or the heavy ones shatter after a while...cant remember if those were medium or heavy.

This post is meant as constructive feedback to you, please keep this in mind when you interpret it. I just need to address you in a direct manner to hopefully make this transparent and straightforward to understand. I respect that you disagree with what I say, conflicting views are very good to nurture further discussion. This is after all just my opinion, but there is some unbiased points here that I hope you will reflect upon.

@cyoce said in Playing ins:source since 2014 (4000 hours). Suggestion for sandstorm (TTK + AREA RESTRICTED + OTHERS):

"Having a fun new player experience is obviously beneficial, but it shouldn't sacrifice any of the gameplay for good players, especially considering all the Ins2 veterans switching over."

My answer: There is no significant sacrifice here, can you elaborate as to why that is the case? - The current TTK is still extremely low which I have addressed numerous times, also in this thread, and why do you talk about sacrifice for good players when you don't understand why AP ammo was the meta in Ins2 and therefore clearly are not familiar with the game mechanics necessary to understand to be a good player in Ins2 (page 2 this thread)? AP AMMO META EXPLAINED: AP ammo was the meta because not using AP ammo was gambling that your enemies did not use heavy armour, giving heavy armour enemies an advantage for no good reason. AP ammo also had higher wall penetration and was needed to kill enemies behind walls, not using AP ammo also gave a player an obvious disadvantage in that regard, THAT is why AP ammo was the meta. That a game mechanic is a meta means that players need to use a certain feature to play efficiently, it does not mean that all players did this, because many players did not understand the logic, the good players understood this - the meta would be for those who understands this as it is the most efficient loadout. It was still the meta no matter what someone who don't understand this would be using as ammo type in Ins2 - The developers have even communicated that AP ammo was the meta themselves if you have listened to their discussions with us.

@cyoce said in Playing ins:source since 2014 (4000 hours). Suggestion for sandstorm (TTK + AREA RESTRICTED + OTHERS):

"With regard to accessing a higher TTK and slower playstyle, that could easily become a crutch that encourages bad habits, making it harder to actually get good at the game. Compromising gameplay for skilled players in order to make it easier for bad players is a recipe for a game that gets stale quickly."

My answer: Why do you write this to me, you are talking about a higher TTK compared to Ins2 which had an extremely low TTK, and the TTK is still extremely low even if a fraction higher than in Ins2. Why do you say that it encourages bad habits and compromises good gameplay? Is it not clear as day that games with even a lot higher TTK still does not have stale gameplay?
Larger maps means lone wolfing is more risky, and a slightly higher TTK means taking on multiple enemies alone is more risky - But the current TTK is not preventing a fast playstyle.

@cyoce said in Playing ins:source since 2014 (4000 hours). Suggestion for sandstorm (TTK + AREA RESTRICTED + OTHERS):

"The weapon you choose has an impact in ins2. It informs your optimal engagement range, how aggressively you can play, how your weapon handles, etc. The viability of armor is not necessarily good for gameplay. It creates inconsistency in gun performance and necessitates a much slower playstyle. I'd be happy if we went down to two armor options (light armor or no armor) or the choice were removed entirely. All armor does is make you slower but tankier, so it doesn't really add flavor to your gameplay."

My answer:
The weapon you choose still has an impact regarding all the aspects you mention here, you need to consider pros and cons on both ends to be able to analyze these game mechanics properly. It adds flavour because people have more choices (it is not only about you, why is this not obvious?). Why do you care, you can just not use armour yourself? New players may prefer being slower but tankier, and they are extremely easy to kill anyway if you are a good player that is - heavy armor is still mostly a feature for unskilled players as it is extremely limiting on your mobility, but it does create diversity and the option to use tanky teammates as more stationary defenses.
I don't use armour at all, the TTK is still low, if this is not your experience, maybe you are not such a good player?
I agree that armour viability is not necessarily good for gameplay - > But the TTK is still extremely low against heavy armoured players, so I don't see this as a relevant issue at higher skills. if it is an issue for inexperienced players they can both use heavy armour themselves, use a weapon with a higher damage output, and/or use explosives which the game delivers in large quantities. A much slower playstyle is your own choice but not necessary, but a little bit slower playstyle is happening, but I think you exaggerate this.

LISTEN: The pace of the game is slow with heavy loadout and fast with a light loadout, it makes no sense to say the game is slow when you can choose this yourself. Enemies die fast if you know how to deal with them efficiently, is not players streaming like sevrawr187 a proof of that?

What Ins2 veterans are you talking about? There is a lot of skilled players from the previous game that have no problem whatsoever to fight efficiently in Sandstorm, if it is a problem with current TTK the skill of a player is not very high compared to a lot of players still able to dominate.

It seems to me that you want the TTK from Ins2 because you liked that TTK more, I did as well, but I see no arguments that have caused significant changes if you hit your targets regarding TTK in this game, and if it is a matter of taste, that is fine, I believe the most significant change in this game is because of larger and less linear maps - This is interesting in making a new game, though I would also prefer some smaller maps introduced later as I thrive in cqb and fast movement - Still we have for now avoided the Buhriz/Panj maps that where not giving players the option to hang out in cqb areas if they preferred cqb environments.

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