COOP boredom

I've played plenty of hours of Insurgency and only played Coop.

Sandstorm coop leaves me bored. If someone were to ask what playing coop is like in Sandstorm...

  1. sprint full speed to next objective
  2. shoot minimal people in that area that seem to primary sit at the objective crouched in the corner waiting for me to enter the room or building
  3. stand on the objective and occasionally have to shoot a bad guy coming into the building
  4. stay inside until whatever artillery is done
  5. go to step 1

The beautiful landscape and obstacles are pointless as I just sprint through them racing to the next point receiving no resistance and minimal challenge.

Suggestions:

  1. Increase resistance between objectives. I rarely have to work to get to an objective. I just arrive and have to shoot my way in.
  2. Increase the number of bots at each point. I played the other day with 4 people total playing. We we confronted by 7 bots. Whoever wins the spring to the next objective gets to shoot bad guys. If you aren't mindlessly sprinting, there's nobody left after you get there.
  3. Something has to be done about empty servers. I don't know that I've played with more than a total of 6 players.

Please fix the maps to either block access to areas that go nowhere or open them up. I ran all the way up a road thinking I would flank and come from the left to find that the end of the road was surrounded by rocks and I have to run all the way back to spawn to start again.

I continue to be impressed at the number of patches coming and hard work the team is putting in. I have faith. I do.

Good points. Imho one of the most fun (2 player) coop modes I've seen so far was the wave based survival mode in COD:MW3 because you moved around more based on your own strategy instead of objective markers. It felt like there was more agency and meaning in where you set up defenses, how you kite enemies through the area etc.. Now I don't say "clone this" because it wouldn't work, I'm saying look at what was fun there and see how Sandstorms Coop could be made more fun. I too feel it gets boring too quickly and usually doesn't create any kind of dynamic battle where the environment really matters. Feels very "artificial" for lack of a better word.

100% this

To be fair. Most of the fun coops in INS 2 were modded servers that quadrupled the numbers of bots, added suicide bombers (now default) and had custom maps and special loadout rules. I'm not surprised the default bots on the default maps are already stale, ESPECIALLY since there's no night missions or hardcore, elite modes to make things tougher.

Agreed, needs more strategic based gameplay. Fire support to soften targets and a progressive bump and run style attack with cover to promote good team based action. Has become a bit of a sprint fest and losing the important military based tactical gameplay.
Would be good to see more variety in spawn locations as people have sussed the points and just sit and pick of waves. Snipers and bots using cover across map to punish rush and camp would add so much more to the game.
And agreed so much good work being done in a short period.

@cephalic and more map layouts, so the objectives aren´t always on the same spot

I think there are a few ways to make this better:

  • Randomize points and switch between cache/capture each playthrough
  • Increase number of bots, but have them spawn further back so that we can't just run into the points
  • Instead of a 5 minute timer to cap point, have a 10 minute timer with bot waves spawned in every few minutes.
  • Have bots set up actual defenses, where one machinegunner will lock down a lane with riflemen covering his flanks. Right now, they all just stand up and run around like idiots until they get an instant headshot on me.
  • Allow players to go back to last objective/spawn to be able to respawn dead teammates. Only allow once per objective, and call in extra enemy reinforcements to create a penalty for needing the respawn.

@jballou I really like this randomized location idea. I would have said its a terrible idea in INS 2 but now the maps are actually big enough to have the locations not be in the exact same place each time and really add some variety to the game.

I think it would still have to go by randomization within sectors, rather than be totally randomized, because there still needs to be some linear progression through the map, rather than skipping to the other side and back again, but I'm hopeful this gets in, either through mods or before launch.

That's a really great idea to have a respawn option at the ammo box of the last objective (and the truck bed for the first objective), but I feel like some (troll) players might waste the one use. So perhaps whenever a player activates the feature it would call a vote for respawn rather than instantly activating it, unless that player is the last alive?

last edited by AMURKA

I'd say spawn more bots, for sure. That's the first thing.

The next thing is the wave respawns. They stop after a while, I think, but you can still deal with many waves of bots (I think three, but there might be more, honestly). While constant reinforcements are cool and all, allowing only five minutes to siege up to three respawn waves isn't very much time. Plus, it encourages players to rush since there are only six to eight enemies at any given time.

Tbh, I'd say scrap the wave system (partially). Maybe have a large wave of 12-16 bots spawn in and attack first, then spawn one more wave of bots that defend the objective. Also, don't have the second wave spawn so far away. I think that would offer enough resistance that trying to rush would just end in failure.

@jballou said in COOP boredom:

I think there are a few ways to make this better:

  • Randomize points and switch between cache/capture each playthrough
  • Increase number of bots, but have them spawn further back so that we can't just run into the points
  • Instead of a 5 minute timer to cap point, have a 10 minute timer with bot waves spawned in every few minutes.
  • Have bots set up actual defenses, where one machinegunner will lock down a lane with riflemen covering his flanks. Right now, they all just stand up and run around like idiots until they get an instant headshot on me.
  • Allow players to go back to last objective/spawn to be able to respawn dead teammates. Only allow once per objective, and call in extra enemy reinforcements to create a penalty for needing the respawn.

These are pretty good suggestions. In fact, I imagine some of these are getting added anyway. Day of Infamy had a system set up where certain bots of certain classes would take certain positions (i.e. a Machinegunner might deploy on a ledge overlooking a beach on Sicily, or a Sniper might park at a window and take pot shots at players).

considering @jballou kept ins alive for many many years with his sourcemod plugins, I cannot agree more/

its to do with the bots being focused on the capture points, in the old ins you would encounter bots enroute to the point, with this ins the players run to the next point where most of the bots are focused and then when capped all bots are silently wiped out.

this encourages run and gun, players racing between the points, it discourages teamwork and skill, and makes the gameplay horrible, predicatble and becomin gmore and more boring.

same capture points time after time, makes the gamplay dull, you need to randomise the points and bot paths to make it less predicable and run and gun.

How about make bots actually behave rationally. If the bots used cover and didn't march around in the middle of the street, firefights would take longer, you'd actually have to check and expect fights outside of objectives, etc. Yea bot numbers need to be bumped, but just releasing a horde of trash bots isn't going to fix anything.

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