32 vs 32 game modes ?

I was exploring Sandstorm maps in offline mode. = All the maps were bigger than I thought.

It seems like Sandstorm maps are designed for a large number of players.

I am pretty sure that these Sandstorm maps can accommodate 32 vs 32 game modes.

The developers put their time and effort into these maps but I feel like only 20% of the areas in maps are being used.

I think there should be a game mode that utilize every corner of the map.

What do you think about adding 32 vs 32 game modes with more objectives ?

For Example =

  • 32 vs 32 game modes = 7 ~ 9 objectives
  • 16 vs 16 game modes = 3 ~ 5 objectives
last edited by Nick Kim

I would like to try 32vs32 in push gamemode with these bigger maps. Why not with the same number of objectives even.

@jensiii

I want to try 32 vs 32 for every game mode.

Since we are still in Beta , we can try new stuff and scrap it out if it doesn't work well.

We need some new game modes that would make this game more unpredictable , more dynamic and less repetitive.

For Example =

New Game Mode

  • 3~7 capture points are randomly generated on the map.
  • Each team must secure the randomly generated capture points.
  • Holding the capture points increases team score.
  • After 2 minutes, a new set of 3~7 capture points are randomly generated on the map.

  • The new set of capture points do not increase score for the first 10 seconds. ( So that you do not have advantage even if the capture point is generated right under your feet. )

last edited by Nick Kim

@nick-kim I'd totally love 5-cp. Or are you thinking more like domination (firefight with push/skirmish respawns)?

@nick-kim said in 32 vs 32 game modes ?:

I think there should be a game mode that utilize every corner of the map.

This exactly.

The whole point of Unreal 4 was to make bigger maps (among other benefits) yet what we have is a huge map with different gamemodes portioned off on small sections of the map, where there's no gamemode where you can utilize the whole map (not even coop!!!).

What this does is waste my frames even more when I'm playing push because I have to load the areas that I don't even get to use in the Push gamemode.

Something needs to be done about this.
Increase the number of players as you say and increase the number of objectives
Maybe their "Capture the base" gamemode they mentioned in previous livestreams would make use of the maps more, though it seems that it is just Skirmish (which doesn't even use the whole map) under a different name.

@slazenger
@cyoce
@jensiii

The developers put their time and effort into creating these beautiful looking maps.

I feel like we are using only 20% of the areas at the moment.

The rest 80% of the areas are not being used at all. ( Sometimes we just run through empty parts of the maps without any fights. )

This is waste of developer's time and effort. + This is waste of graphic card processing power.

I want game modes that can utilize every corner of these maps.

last edited by Nick Kim

@slazenger
@cyoce
@jensiii


My Proposal =

  • Add 32 vs 32 versions of existing game modes.

    or

  • Add new game modes with more objectives and 32 vs 32 player count.


@slazenger said in 32 vs 32 game modes ?:

@nick-kim said in 32 vs 32 game modes ?:

I think there should be a game mode that utilize every corner of the map.

This exactly.

The whole point of Unreal 4 was to make bigger maps (among other benefits) yet what we have is a huge map with different gamemodes portioned off on small sections of the map, where there's no gamemode where you can utilize the whole map (not even coop!!!).

What this does is waste my frames even more when I'm playing push because I have to load the areas that I don't even get to use in the Push gamemode.

Something needs to be done about this.
Increase the number of players as you say and increase the number of objectives
Maybe their "Capture the base" gamemode they mentioned in previous livestreams would make use of the maps more, though it seems that it is just Skirmish (which doesn't even use the whole map) under a different name.

Capture the base likely uses the entire map (depending on player count). It seems similar to skirmish in the way it works, but is still different, and you also get way more waves and vehicles I think.

last edited by staryoshi06

@slazenger It might have been in the first alpha, but I wasn't in it.
It's mostly speculation based on b-roll footage and the tutorial videos.

Since Sandstorm is using the Unreal Engine 4 (just like SQUAD and Post Scriptum) technically the game should be able to easily handle this, the maps are also a lot bigger than before so yes, if a solid 32 vs 32 game mode would come I would certainly check it out, could be fun!

@valerian
@staryoshi06
@slazenger

  • Small Map + Small Player Count = Good

  • Big Map + Big Player Count = Good

  • Small Map + Big Player Count = Too Crowded

  • Big Map + Small Player Count = Feels Empty

Sandstorm maps are huge but we have only 16 players per team.

Insurgency 2014 maps are fine with 16 players per team because Insurgency 2014 maps are small.

Sandstorm maps are much bigger than Insurgency 2014 maps = Sandstorm maps need way more than 16 players per team

last edited by Nick Kim

@valerian
@staryoshi06
@slazenger

Current State of Sandstorm =

  1. The graphic card loads a huge map.

  2. People use only a small section of the map.

  3. The graphic card ends up loading the areas that players don't even get to use.

  4. Waste of processing power.


My proposal =

  1. Add 32 vs 32 versions of existing game modes.

    or

  2. Add new game modes with 32 vs 32 player count.

@nick-kim Have you ever heard of an LOD system?
The graphics card only loads whatever you need to actually see.

Maybe 16v16, because I feel like 32v32 would be a huge pain in the ass to optimize.

Nice, UE4 already support 100 players, 64 will be easy.

@staryoshi06 said in 32 vs 32 game modes ?:

@nick-kim Have you ever heard of an LOD system?
The graphics card only loads whatever you need to actually see.

Let me explain how it works.

Level of Detail vs. Video Memory

For speed reasons, the graphic card need to keep all needed assets for LOD in ram at once.
The graphics card prepares all the asset even before those assets are on your screen.
Mipmapping is a type of LOD for textures.
Mipmapping is handled by the GPUand is seperated from LOD which is concerned with meshes.
In general, meshes take up video memory.
MipMapping can be affected by a LOD setting if there is no separate Mipmap size/distance setting.
For example = Closer than distance x, the highest resolution texture is used, between distance x and y, a half size texture is used, between y and z a quarter sized texture is used, and beyond z a 1/8th size texture is used.
Even if the assets are not on your screen yet, the assets are being prepared in graphic card ram.
The graphic card prepares all the assets even before being used and LOD changes the texture size of those assets based on the distances.

[ TLDR ] Bigger Map = More Processing Power Required


However , I am not here to talk about how graphic cards work.
My point is that these Sandstorm maps are designed for large player count.
Sandstorm maps are huge but we have only 16 players per team.
Insurgency 2014 maps are fine with 16 players per team because Insurgency 2014 maps are small.
Sandstorm maps are much bigger than Insurgency 2014 maps = Sandstorm maps need way more than 16 players per team

  • Small Map + Small Player Count = Good

  • Big Map + Big Player Count = Good

  • Small Map + Big Player Count = Too Crowded

  • Big Map + Small Player Count = Feels Empty

Considering the size of Sandstorm maps , we need at least 32 players per team.
Big Map + Small Player Count = You have to run through empty ghost towns without any fights.


My proposal = Let us choose max player count before queuing

  • 32 vs 32
  • 16 vs 16
  • 8 vs 8
last edited by Nick Kim

@hustlehard said in 32 vs 32 game modes ?:

Maybe 16v16, because I feel like 32v32 would be a huge pain in the ass to optimize.

PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds is compiled with Unreal Engine 4.
UE4 can handle up to 100 players.
64 players won't be a huge pain in the ass.

last edited by Nick Kim

@nick-kim Alternatively they could attempt to create a system that doesn't load sections of the map a player won't be able to access. Usually Push will use half of the map so they only need to load half.

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