No TK Pentaly + Unable to Mute Players = Toxic Game

Honestly, I think this game is awesome; 80% of the time it's a lot of fun. But the people that are just playing the game to troll makes for an extremely frustrating experience. I played a match a few days ago where someone purposely TK'd me with a truck, and then talked shit to me the entire rest of the round. There was no way to mute them, so the only other option is to leave the server; with a total of 600 or so players on the East Coast, that's really disappointing. PLEASE give us the option to mute players. And implementing a TK penalty, where 3-5 TKs removes that player from the server, would help tremendously.

I'm not sure if you don't want to kick people because you think that will discourage them from playing altogether or something, but the trade-off is you're making the people who want to play as a team leave the server because their match is being ruined by someone who is not playing the objective. Even if the TKs are accidental, if someone has five TKs in a round and gets kicked, that would make it pretty obvious that they need to learn to recognize their team's uniform/attire. And I'll be honest, accidental TKs don't bother me at all; I understand when someone is a lower level and doesn't have a lot of time in the game, and even Veterans make mistakes from time-to-time, but the people who are trolling are ruining the game.

Why is there no Report System? After a player receives a certain number of reports (for TKing, or even toxic behavior), you could at least check their stats and see if there's a TKing trend. If a player has a dozen Toxic Behavior reports, that should indicate that player isn't there to be a good teammate. In a team-based FPS title, where friendly fire is always on, there HAS to be some sort of system to keep TKing players in check. If not, you're going to lose the players who are there to build the game and community up, instead of tear it down like the trolls love doing. After a match of being forced to deal with trolling, or having to leave the server, I quickly decide there are a lot of other games to play instead.

P.S. I would also suggest removing the ability to TK teammates before matches start. Even though the deaths don't count, people still get upset, and will often TK the person who shot them during pre-match. It certainly doesn't encourage a team-mentality, either.

There should absolutely be a democratic votekick and an auto kick if you get 2 or 3 tks in a match.

If there was a votekick and mute there'd be no reason to even have a report system.

I am agree with every word: without TK penalty and mute the game can give more negative emotions than positive.
It is essential to have justice and not feel like some third class citizen that everybody can humiliate for fun and continue play.

Topic is the main problem with Insurgensy: Sandstorm now! I dont want to play and test beta, until it fixed.

Tkers can hurt but not kill teammates to avoid kick. This happends all the time in Insurgency2(soruce).
Even getting kicked, tkers can simply join back to any server they want and keep tking.
These are my ture experiences. Kicks simple don't work.

Tkers stop tking simply becasue they are satisfied, not because of kicks.
You can try to hurt/kill teammates on Insurgency2(source) official servers for a whole night, to see if kicks can really stop you.

The penalty for hurting/killing temmates needs to be ' instant', 'automatic', and 'painful' to be effective.

last edited by s925033

@mnkylvr said in No TK Pentaly + Unable to Mute Players = Toxic Game:

P.S. I would also suggest removing the ability to TK teammates before matches start. Even though the deaths don't count, people still get upset, and will often TK the person who shot them during pre-match. It certainly doesn't encourage a team-mentality, either.

Sure, let's just remove anything fun from the game because someone might get butt hurt and take it personally.

If someone actually gets salty because of some stupid pre-game lobby shenanigans, then that person needs to lighten the hell up. Most everybody I've played with knows that the TKing in pre-game lobby is just people goofing around. It's very rarely an indicator of how the match is actually going to go.

@quadsword said in No TK Pentaly + Unable to Mute Players = Toxic Game:

@mnkylvr said in No TK Pentaly + Unable to Mute Players = Toxic Game:

P.S. I would also suggest removing the ability to TK teammates before matches start. Even though the deaths don't count, people still get upset, and will often TK the person who shot them during pre-match. It certainly doesn't encourage a team-mentality, either.

Sure, let's just remove anything fun from the game because someone might get butt hurt and take it personally.

If someone actually gets salty because of some stupid pre-game lobby shenanigans, then that person needs to lighten the hell up. Most everybody I've played with knows that the TKing in pre-game lobby is just people goofing around. It's very rarely an indicator of how the match is actually going to go.

I've never had anyone be salty about the pre-game lobby … everyone know's its just a mess around before the round starts.

@MnkyLvr I assume there's no report system because NWI doesn't have the staff for it … the amount of reports they'd have to sift through, most of which would probably be bogus, would be astounding.

@thehappybub said in No TK Pentaly + Unable to Mute Players = Toxic Game:

I've never had anyone be salty about the pre-game lobby … everyone know's its just a mess around before the round starts.

I once witnessed exactly that: dude started his vengeance war during the match vs dude who killed him in pre-match. After a couple of TKs team told him "to lighten the hell up" but it didn't help. Bullet in the head helped though. So basically team had to shoot that inadequate down on every respawn.
I got some noteable TKs of myself. 1) Like once a salty dude didn't like how I was playing (camping with MG), so he came TKed me. I got my revenge next turn ofc. 2) A dude once decided I was cheating (I wasn't even that good). BAM!! I got shot in the back after respawn. Makes you feel really angry.

I suggest what a Rainbow Six Siege is doing. Got 3 TK in one match - get banned for 30 min. Soon after that player got 3 TK again - ban for 2 hours, then 6, 24, etc. Also increased penalty for TK in first 10 seconds after respawn or if player TKs the same player 3 times in a roll it's not a mere coincidence.
Votekick has its + and -. In some games I played was a choice to forgive/punish your TKer (but that barely works). Never seen a complaints or reports work, like there are buttons and you press them, but then nothing really happens.

Slippery slope.
What if someone walks in front of your line of fire? Should you immediately be punished?
I've played on servers that kill you for tking someone. It is not fun when you accidentally kill a teammate.

@gdwin said in No TK Pentaly + Unable to Mute Players = Toxic Game:

I suggest what a Rainbow Six Siege is doing

And ban you for 30 mins after a single tk??? No thank you senpai.

Totally agree. And the pre match could easily be done so that weapons wont fire when pointed at teammates. I like the moment to check your weapon and stuff.

I need a member of management to the fronted please? Why! Because is why! Siege has a solution and has implemented it at least. Lets hope the same for NWI, I would appreciate any attempt from them. Then again, I've come across several chances in my run ins to just use the matchmaking option. Lets face it, if insurgency attracts a bad crowd, then that is just how it will be. Reality check, take it or leave it. Single player is my thing but I have recently embraced the coop multiplayer because of Insurgency. I was also disappointed that they put a hold on their single player campaign. I think there would be allot less flak from people who have the option to just quit and click single player as relief of it all.

last edited by Zafer

I'd be in favor of ricochet friendly fire, tbh. You know, where if you shoot a teammate, you take the damage, not them. I could see that being an issue with realism or immersion, obviously. So, maybe some sort of middle ground where after 1-2 FF incidents in a single game, ricochet is turned on, but only for the perpetrator? I don't know, just spit-balling.

@tedeski The problem with ricochet penalty is that it doesn't work at all. Once the trolls figure out how it works, which happens almost immediately, it gives them an opportunity to troll even harder. Soon they'll be purposefully placing themselves in front of everyone's fire, becoming invincible and forcing players into suicide.

Any mechanism that doesn't boot the tker out of the game isn't going to work. Kicking won't work if they can just rejoin.

There should be 2 or 3 free tks because shit happens. After that you get kicked and banned from that specific match until its completion or for some duration of time. I find this to be the best solution.

@thehappybub said in No TK Pentaly + Unable to Mute Players = Toxic Game:

@tedeski The problem with ricochet penalty is that it doesn't work at all. Once the trolls figure out how it works, which happens almost immediately, it gives them an opportunity to troll even harder. Soon they'll be purposefully placing themselves in front of everyone's fire, becoming invincible and forcing players into suicide.

Anybody that committed to trolling will already try 'standing in front of players' to troll. In your example, the '2-3 times' would simply be a goal for the troll to make the specific person reach. I've seen it in Ins2 and I've seen it in Sandstorm. Someone gets pissy, so they find the object of their ire and simply stand in front of them or tap them in the legs a few times to draw their fire. Eventually, the person who is trying to avoid getting trolled ends up getting kicked for friendly fire.

The idea the someone will still abuse the system doesn't make a system bad. Perfect example is in a troll-laden game like CoD hardcore mode; it has ricochet friendly fire, but far less people troll with friendly fire when that's the punishment. And it's CALL OF DUTY for crying out loud haha. If people want to troll, they will troll. They will find a way. If friendly fire is the trolling you want to prevent, ricochet is the most consistent way to combat it.

Kicking and banning doesn't work, because it's super easy to abuse it. Just wait for a vote to show up, and then leave the game. Reconnect 30 seconds later and the vote fails to pass because you were already gone. Very seldom have I seen a way to circumvent that loophole.

last edited by tedeski

@tedeski said in No TK Pentaly + Unable to Mute Players = Toxic Game:

Perfect example is in a troll-laden game like CoD hardcore mode; it has ricochet friendly fire, but far less people troll with friendly fire when that's the punishment. And it's CALL OF DUTY for crying out loud haha.

You've got a point there with CoD's hardcore. Never played it. I guess I imagine a lot of ways ricochet fire could be abused, but maybe the reality is that its effective. Either way, the beta would be an ideal way to test it out...

@thehappybub I don't expect them to implement it. But here's to hoping they do something! lol

I don't really have the TK issues often, but there is a problem with being able to see who is speaking and muting them.

Insurgency Sandstorm Community Moderator

Just wanted to pop in and say that the muting issue is a known issue. They're working on it 🙂

@thehappybub said in No TK Pentaly + Unable to Mute Players = Toxic Game:

Once the trolls figure out how it works, which happens almost immediately, it gives them an opportunity to troll even harder. Soon they'll be purposefully placing themselves in front of everyone's fire, becoming invincible and forcing players into suicide.

Had something similar happen in the Division in the DZ. A player started running around in circles firing toward me. I returned fire, hit him and then I was tagged as a rogue. Once that happened he killed me.

Immediately after the incident I realized what he had done. He coerced me into firing at him while purposely missing me with his shots. The game saw me as the rogue instead of him since I technically landed the first shot.

Griefers are gonna grief, trash talkers are are gonna talk trash, exploiters are gonna exploit, hackers are gonna hack, etc. They always find ways. ....but I agree that there still needs to be penalties implemented to help mitigate the problem.

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