We don't want the one hit kills.

I'll spawn another TTK thread, even though I really mean this to be a buff the armor in a balanced way thread.

I think everything should OSK on headshot.
I think rifle and sniper rounds should OSK to the chest (unarmored).
EDIT: and larger pistol rounds for unarmored targets (thx @GSG_9_LIGHTNING)
I also think armor should actually be useful.

Instagib through armor:
(1) Isn't fun
(2) Increases the pace of the game and makes it less tactical
(3) Lowers the skill ceiling

Reasons for my above observations are everywhere in every TTK thread, I won't restate them.

Light armor:
(1) Should be cheap
(2) Should only affect pistol rounds and like the UZI (smaller calibers)
(3) Rifle and sniper rounds should ignore it
(4) Should barely impede movement

Heavy armor:
(1) Should be more expensive
(2) Should take significant torso shots from rifles (that aren't sniper rifles, aka high velocity) using 7.62 NATO, 7.62x39, .40, .45 ACP, .357 SIG, every pistol caliber
(3) 5.56 should (realistically) ignore it... I'd be happy if it was just better at penetrating than the above calibers
(4) Sniper rounds should ignore it
(5) Should significantly impair movement

AP ammo is unnecessary, considering snipers should bypass armor completely, 5.56 should bypass armor, and certain firearms in game use AP rounds by default (MP7).

In his post @Zayzek said "pistols are useless because they need about 4 hits and the bolt action snipers can't kill a heavy armor in one hit, the weapons should always have AP rounds on them, Insurgency2 was fun because of the 1 hit kills."

Above I've addressed every point.

I reiterate, OSK/OHK/instagib lasering people isn't fun. I liked Ins2, but I had problems with it. I like Sandstorm better.

last edited by thehappybub

@thehappybub Haha I just posted basically the opposite but in my experience very little OHK going on at least not on my screen you must have magic ammo! Lol only bolt actions seem to for me.

@thehappybub And by the by you should have put “YOU” don’t want OHK!

@planetcanada the title is in response to a popular thread called "We want the one hit kills."

If 5.56 bypasses armor and 7.62 doesn't, what's the point of 7.62?

@cyoce Oh haha my bad I’m not in the loop I guess 😢

@cyoce said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

If 5.56 bypasses armor and 7.62 doesn't, what's the point of 7.62?

Yeah, the original model actually required less 7.62 AK rounds to drop a target with Heavy Armor than 5.56, which I think makes more sense from a balancing perspective.

@planetcanada Your not in the loop because you are a toxic idiot that cant spell worsd lol

last edited by FaTTMeDic

@fattmedic Ughhh... Riiiight... How am I a toxic idiot and which “WORSD” did I spell wrong? Maybe proof read ur own shit cause u sound like a fool? Maybe?? Lol lol

@planetcanada Hahaha course you'd fall for it... Idiot remains an idiot!

@fattmedic Fair enough I haven’t the slightest idea of what your on about! Congrats!

@planetcanada Your to easy to mess with, have fun with fortnite.

@cyoce said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

If 5.56 bypasses armor and 7.62 doesn't, what's the point of 7.62?

I'm just basing this off of how armor behaves in reality. From a balance perspective, I don't see why 5.56 weapons can't simply cost more points given that they're basically AP.

@thehappybub said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@cyoce said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

If 5.56 bypasses armor and 7.62 doesn't, what's the point of 7.62?

I'm just basing this off of how armor behaves in reality. From a balance perspective, I don't see why 5.56 weapons can't simply cost more points given that they're basically AP.

I recall you saying in some other thread that 7.62 is better at penetrating walls or something similar. Correct me if I remember wrong. If that' the case, that would be a way to balance it: 7.62 better at wallbanging and useful at lighting a house with objective on fire with hail of bullets.

@jensiii yea so since 7.62 is a larger round that travels at relatively lower velocities, its not good at piercing armor, but it'll rip through trees, cinderblocks, freaking brick walls. I mean an AK 74 can literally chop down trees, its pretty wild ... but once it hits a heavy armor plate it just doesn't have the point force.

A 5.56 on the other hand is small and light but travels very fast. It penetrates armor and dense but thin materials much better. A 5.56 however wouldn't go through a tree or cinderblocks. Honestly doubt it would go through a well-made wooden table. In movies where they like tip a table over for cover that would actually probably work for a 5.56 lol.

last edited by thehappybub

Relative to direct fights wallbanging happens way less. If you make 5.56 more effective vs armor than 7.62, it will simply lead to a 5.56+more supply points meta.

I don't think realism does the gameplay any good for balancing in this case. It's unintuitiv and will lead to weird balancing. 7.62 should do more dmg than 5.56 in every instance. Balancing is way more straight forward and intuitiv this way.

last edited by Benz

@benz said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

7.62 should do more dmg than 5.56

It honestly wouldn't bother me too much. They can actually tweak the ammo of the Ak74 a bit to follow what you just said without making things super unrealistic...

An AK74 is actually more commonly chambered for 5.45 x 39 rounds, which basically behave like 5.56. If they changed this it would just relegate it into being a 5.56 rifle basically.

The only other guns that use a 7.62 x 39 are like the AKM and PKM. The PKM's muzzle velocity is really high, so it'd effectively work like a SCAR H and go through armor anyway.

The rifles that use 7.62 x 51 (NATO) all have high muzzle velocities too, which would also go through armor relatively well (G3A3, SCAR H).

The SVD uses a 7.62 x 54 round (which, fun fact, was made for the mosin in like 1890 something lol) and that rips through things.

The only gun that wouldn't behave realistically would be the AKM really, but given that everything else would be pretty balanced I'm down.

Sorry for all the writing, I was like working through the logic of it in my head and figured I'd just write it out.

To be honest, for heavy armor, 7.62 and 5.56 could probably do just about the same damage and as armor goes lower, 7.62 damage could be higher along with all of the other 7.62 bennefits like wall penetration. To contrast this, 5.56 does lower damage than 7.62 but loses less damage as the armor tiers go up.

@ziggylata said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

as armor goes lower, 7.62 damage could be higher along with all of the other 7.62 bennefits like wall penetration. To contrast this, 5.56 does lower damage than 7.62 but loses less damage as the armor tiers go up.

This sounds totally reasonable to me.

last edited by thehappybub

@thehappybub I totally disagree with EVERYTHING you said. This game is notorious for its lethality (Insurgency Source). If you want a casual game, then play CoD or BF.

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