We don't want the one hit kills.

@alphaandomega I'm in total agreement with you here. Every point my dude.

@alphaandomega said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

The game with the closest depiction of real body armor is Escape from Tarkov, which might be a little too much for my tastes, especially as we're playing as relatively poorly equipped forces. But if we had to shift the game, that's the direction it needs to shift from source insurgency.

I also think that if Sandstorm should move in any direction it should move in Trakov's direction.

Thank you for the support! I love Sandstorm and I have high hopes for the game, and hopefully I can help clarify some misunderstandings people have about the game.

The people asking for a quick TTK because they simply happen to either enjoy the sense of pace it provides, or they played realistic shooters from WW2 or such eras where one hit kills made very good sense.

If it's simply a matter of taste, I can only argue for my own feelings otherwise. However, if they're under the misimpression that requesting a higher TTK makes people fall exclusively into the province of battlefield players I wanted to show why there's a realism argument to be made in its favor. Ideally with a more concrete and nuanced look available there'll be less name calling and accusations of casual-ness from either side which is all I can hope for in the end haha!

@alphaandomega yea I saw your thread, good points.

@alphaandomega said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@mohdak

I think there's a fundamental confusion at play here, none of the people are asking for a 'casual' experience, they want a 'realistic' and hard-core one. IRL, body armor at level 3 or above will save you from several rifle caliber shots, with bruising only for the first few.

On the other hand, the TTK should be lowered people seem to believe that a rifle bullet can one hit a person in heavy armor, which is incredibly unrealistic and would only make sense as a 'hardcore' experience if it was a WW2 or Vietnam Era game without any body armor whatsoever. Even one 9mm or .45 to the torso of an unarmored opponent isn't guaranteed to incapacitate, that's why IRL, police are trained to double tap armed suspects..

The game with the closest depiction of real body armor is Escape from Tarkov, which might be a little too much for my tastes, especially as we're playing as relatively poorly equipped forces. But if we had to shift the game, that's the direction it needs to shift from source insurgency.

I think the biggest reasons for a perceived too high TTK is the lack of reaction to getting shot, ideally a hit should cause massive aimpunch and sway to simulate the nasty bruise a stopped rifle shot will still produce. That will stop people from calmly turning around and headshotting you in turn, and make positioning and tactics all the more important!

Also, heavy armor could always be made a point more expensive, and slow users more, that isn't an issue of realism or hardcoreness at all, seeing as there all kinds of IRL body armors.

Also, now there's a use for proper sniper rifles for sniping as opposed to scoped ARs, as they're much more likely to guarantee a one hit kill at range.

Dont pretend like you are an army veteran that has survived multiple gun shot wounds and IED explosives...We all know you dont have any clue about what you are talking about. Nobody here wants a 1-to-1 real life experience military shooter. That's just plain dumb. We want the game to have the same fun core mechanics of the original insurgency (which is only a video game btw, not a real war simulator).

So i dont care whether armor can stop bullets in real life or not. I just want this new insurgency to have the same mechanics of the old game, with additional improvements like better graphics, better animations, more guns, more attachments, more maps...etc.

One of the main reasons I disagree with all these calls for lower TKK (from basically only 3-5 people) is because it leaves NOWHERE for the game to go. It would basically eliminate the possibility of a "hardcore" mode because everyone is already dying in one shot anyway... So other than maybe restricting points more and adding more bots or something, there'd be nothing you could change to make that mode different or more intense.

@mohdak said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

We all know you dont have any clue about bla bla bla.....
We want the game to have the bla bla bla....

Who's we? You and the 2 other guys? Not me certainly, because I don't agree with what you're saying.

I just hate when people do this and use "we" to try to make their post mean something. Don't talk for anyone else but yourself. If people agree, they will upvote your post.

@jensiii this +100. Not to mention that if the game doesn't get better than Ins2 it'll share the same faith of not even 3k peak players per day. There's a reason Ins2 is a small game...hint: it's not because it's "niche". That's such a lame excuse. "Hey man, my band isn't popular because we are 'niche'" ...No, your band is just awful.

@benz said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@jensiii this +100. Not to mention that if the game doesn't get better than Ins2 it'll share the same faith of not even 3k peak players per day. There's a reason Ins2 is a small game..

Yep, if INSS was made an exact copy of INS2, just with better graphics because of the new engine, how would the playerbase suddenly just double or triple etc.? Someone will argue that "Marketing could make a difference!", but if the game can't retain players after free weekend or whatever it was called (referring to your earlier examples in some other threads about INS2 player retention), how could investing more money into marketing yield better returns then? This is implying that the game is small not because people don't know about it. So it must be something else.

It's actually in the best interest of the players to have a game that is A REAL success, with as big of a playerbase as possible. I don't think everyone get's it. This doesn't mean it has to be a COD/BF clone.

hint: it's not because it's "niche". That's such a lame excuse. "Hey man, my band isn't popular because we are 'niche'" ...No, your band is just awful.

Haha yep! :D:D Laughed so hard when read this. I've used to play guitar in a touring band and I've actually heard this phrase IRL before, can totally relate to this specific example 😃

One hit kills are good.

@dafez Thanks for your opinion. If you'd provide actual gameplay arguments it'd actually help the devs.

I'll pull a @dafez ...

One hit kills are no bueno.

@benz said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@dafez Thanks for your opinion. If you'd provide actual gameplay arguments it'd actually help the devs.

Ok. Realism. Forces people to be tactical, and play with a focused intention, instead of running around like they're playing CoD.

The title of your post was "We don't want....." You're not my elected representative, which is why I'm voicing my dissenting opinion 🙂

@dafez The title of this post is mostly a comeback towards a similar forum post "We Want The One-Hit Kills".

As for every gun OHKing, it would make a lot of guns useless (the M14 EBR in Ins2014 was basically junk compared to the M16A4).

@dafez said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@benz said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@dafez Thanks for your opinion. If you'd provide actual gameplay arguments it'd actually help the devs.

Ok. Realism.

No. Realism is not a gameplay argument.

Forces people to be tactical

Also no.... it makes people either rambo alone or camp alone, as already stated and proved in multiple threads. It's literally what low-TTK people argue with: "So i can flank 10 people and kill them". That's not teamplay nor tactical.

and play with a focused intention, instead of running around like they're playing CoD.

Yeah, 3rd no. That's how i literally play Sandstorm right now. Because of the currently already low TTK. Just run around and kill stuff. Don't even need armor.

@benz said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@dafez said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@benz said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@dafez Thanks for your opinion. If you'd provide actual gameplay arguments it'd actually help the devs.

Ok. Realism.

No. Realism is not a gameplay argument.

Forces people to be tactical

Also no.... it makes people either rambo alone or camp alone, as already stated and proved in multiple threads. It's literally what low-TTK people argue with: "So i can flank 10 people and kill them". That's not teamplay nor tactical.

and play with a focused intention, instead of running around like they're playing CoD.

Yeah, 3rd no. That's how i literally play Sandstorm right now. Because of the currently already low TTK. Just run around and kill stuff. Don't even need armor.

@benz said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@dafez said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@benz said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@dafez Thanks for your opinion. If you'd provide actual gameplay arguments it'd actually help the devs.

Ok. Realism.

No. Realism is not a gameplay argument.

Forces people to be tactical

Also no.... it makes people either rambo alone or camp alone, as already stated and proved in multiple threads. It's literally what low-TTK people argue with: "So i can flank 10 people and kill them". That's not teamplay nor tactical.

and play with a focused intention, instead of running around like they're playing CoD.

Yeah, 3rd no. That's how i literally play Sandstorm right now. Because of the currently already low TTK. Just run around and kill stuff. Don't even need armor.

Sorry you feel that way.

@dafez said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

Ok. Realism. Forces people to be tactical, and play with a focused intention, instead of running around like they're playing CoD.

Yeah, this claim has been debunked a million times already (OHK leading to tactical gameplay). It's other mechanics that need tweaking for the gameplay to become more tactical.

They should have locked this beta to people that have played insurgency2, all these new players are coming and saying that TTK is too fast, and all the vets are saying to slow.

Insurgency2 was OHK for everything over pistol caliber rounds, but pistol caliber rounds still killed in one shot against light or no armor, and that is what the whole insurgency game was about and why people brought it (except for when the $1 sales started, that was the bain of insurgency2). If you like more casual kill times go play basically every other FPS game on the market, but this game is for insurgency fans, not battlefield fans, so stop trying to make this battlefield. I hate the frantic spray wars which is what the game is at the moment, I loved the accuracy over spray meta that Insurgency 2 promoted and is why I played insurg2 for so long. Lets have it back.

Personally, I don't give a fuck about "tactical" BS, or "the skill ceiling being low for OHK", for the 4 thousandth time its an INS sequel and INS2 had a fast af TTK along with INS:MIC, so INS:S should also have OHK to body otherwise we might as well call this COD. If you dislike OHK, bugger off and stop making this game COD.

Before you reply to this saying "you talking BS, fast ttk makes the game shit in everyway...". think about how long you played INS2, if the answer is less than 100, dont bother replying just boot up battlefield and shut up.

last edited by Zucchini

@jensiii said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@dafez said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

Ok. Realism. Forces people to be tactical, and play with a focused intention, instead of running around like they're playing CoD.

Yeah, this claim has been debunked a million times already (OHK leading to tactical gameplay). It's other mechanics that need tweaking for the gameplay to become more tactical.

I haven't seen it debunked in the least. If people recognize that they could potentially die from one well placed shot, they are less likely to take careless risk, and are forced to think things through tactically. Always dying from one shot would be unrealistic. A person can take several small arms rounds and still fight back. In the same token, however, a person can be killed from one well placed shot from small arms fire. There's a balance to be made, but trying to say that there should not be one shot kills is ridiculous.

@dafez Yes, there should be balance. My stance is against "OHK in every situation", which is still something people seem to want.

I could just re-post Unreal Tournament Instagib -video here again as proof. There you can die from 1 shot. Still NONE of these things happen:

they are less likely to take careless risk, and are forced to think things through tactically.

It's because of the other mechanics in game. UT is a proof that unless other mechanics make the game more tactical, then TTK does not have a single effect on how tactical the game is. If lowering TTK was all it took to make a game more tactical, UT Instagib would automatically be much more tactical. But it isn't.

It's the same thing with Sandstorm: because TTK is already low, lowering it even more doesn't help to make the game more tactical. Tweaking other mechanics is what would make the game more tactical. Like proper tagging and other movement mechanics tweaks. It would solve a lot of the problems people are complaining about.

Now I'm talking from perspective of making the game more tactical. Some can say "I like OHK" and that's fine. But the argument "Lower the TTK from the current one, it will make the game more tactical" is false as fuck. TTK is already low, it's not a magic wand that makes all the problems disappear by tweaking it to the extreme. UT Instagib example shows us that other mechanics matter more than TTK.

So if someone says "I wan't the game to become more tactical", we should start to talk about movement mechanics more than TTK. And of course all the other mechanics that the game has.

Yes we do, don't speak on the behalf of an entirety of a fandom. Oneshot kills are generally headshots or .50's, which makes plenty of sense, and makes the game fast paced

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