We don't want the one hit kills.

@excaliburrebel I'm not sure what you're talking about.

If it's a response to the OP's thread title, it's yet again a response thread to a similar one "We want the one-hit kills".

@zucchini said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

all the vets are saying to slow.

But they're not. Some of the vets are and some of the vets aren't. The fast TTK people are just like claiming that whole group of people just 'cause.

@zucchini said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

if the answer is less than 100

Over 300 hrs for me, most of the people supporting my arguments have even more time.

@marksmanmax said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

If it's a response to the OP's thread title, it's yet again a response thread to a similar one "We want the one-hit kills".

Also for all you people responding to the title of the post, as has been mentioned like three times now, this is in response to this https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/29335/we-want-the-one-hit-kills/211
It's spooktober, I know, but please don't revive it for like the tenth time.

@thehappybub said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@zucchini said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

if the answer is less than 100

Over 300 hrs for me, most of the people supporting my arguments have even more time.

1400+ and I think TTK on armored targets needs to be a bit higher lmao.

Good lord... is this what it's come down to, now? We can't have friendly debate over this issue anymore, so we just insult and deride the other side?

I swear to fucking god, I'll die a happy man if I never have to hear the words "Go back to COD" thrown at me ever again.
(So I guess I'll die a very sad man, instead.)

Why is it that everyone who likes a slower TTK is automatically a filthy casual / COD player / BF player? Is nuance just not a thing on the internet anymore? Can't we at least give something a try before calling it garbage?

I know I'm kicking the hornet's nest by saying this... but the ultra fast TTK was the reason I didn't put more than 100 hours into the original. The gunplay lacked nuance. How can there be any nuance to shooting mechanics or weapon choices in an environment where everything instagibs? This'll be a weird comparison, but the feeling I got from shooting people in INS:Source was comparable to the empty feeling I get when I revisit old maps in Borderlands and am having to fight enemies 10 or 20 levels below me. Flanking and killing 10 people doesn't feel very satisfying when those kills feel so effortless.

@quadsword said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

Is nuance just not a thing on the internet anymore?

I mean it’s not a thing anywhere anymore tbh so it doesn’t surprise me that people always deviate to the extremes.

last edited by thehappybub

if TTK stays where it is, which I'd be okay with, I'd definitely say bigger aimpunch for upper body shots and movement speed drop for lower body. If I can't rely on shooting someone to kill them, I should at least be able to rely on it to drive them behind cover or panic instead of doing a whirl and shooting me like robocop

@thehappybub Yeah, I really don't get it... seems like in recent years the whole concept of friendly debate got thrown in the bin.

Honestly, though, nothing irritates me more than people trying to shut down discussion with "Shut up and go back to <insert mainstream shooter here>". Good lord, just because someone's opinion on TTK doesn't line up with yours doesn't automatically mean they just want the game to be COD or BF because here's the thing... those games exist. If I wanted those, I'd go bloody play those. I'm here because I don't want to play those games.

(I'm at least thankful NWI is taking a nuanced look at the issue themselves. I think they realize this is just a growing pain for the Insurgency community and once people get adjusted to the changes, most of the complaints will disappear. And probably be replaced with different complaints.)

@quadsword said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

those games exist. If I wanted those, I'd go bloody play those.

By the same logic, people who want ins2 should go play that game.

@thehappybub said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

@quadsword said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

those games exist. If I wanted those, I'd go bloody play those.

By the same logic, people who want ins2 should go play that game.

there are millions literally millions of games with the TTK you are wanting. There are 3 games with INS2's TTK those being, INS:MIC, INS2, DOI. you telling me we aren't allowed an upgrade to a game when you lot are just getting another game... why don't you want to move on Battlefield offers basically the same thing as the game right now. rainbow6 has the same lethality as the game at the moment... can low TTK fans have a modern game? please... ;-;

What is bad about low TTK like INS2 had, list them so I can make a counterpoint for the sake of a better thread than the last one. I promise to be open-minded if you promise to be open minded.

@zucchini said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

why don't you want to move on Battlefield offers basically the same thing as the game right now.

Whoooooosh. The whole reason I made the go to ins2 claim is to demonstrate this very logic and how it is flawed. You're literally proving my point that this is ridiculous.

@thehappybub So you're telling me that you are exempt from your own laws now? you literally said:

@thehappybub said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

people who want ins2 should go play that game.

and if you say I have taken that out of context I have seen you and other people say it before.

What is this logic bull shit it is pushing my fucking nerves. My logic is that if somebody wants a product that already exists, they should get that product not get something that they don't want and change it to their desire. It's like saying "I want an accurate rifle" then buying a Lee Enfield WWI rifle and modifying it, thus taking all the essence and the history out of the Lee Enfield to make an accurate rifle. to me that is illogical, do you get my point of view?

last edited by Zucchini

@zucchini said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

I have seen you and other people say it before.

Every time I say it its in response to someone telling me to go play cod. Its simply a reply using their own reasoning.

The reason for this forum is to receive input on the game. The way I see it low ttk's main point is: we want SS to be more like ins2. The higher ttk has arguments like increasing tactical play, increasing skill ceiling, increasing teamwork.

I like the latter much more because it will improve on an old game which had the right direction but didn't really succeed well as I wish it would have.

last edited by thehappybub

@thehappybub said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

tactical play, increasing skill ceiling, increasing teamwork.

righto then

  • Tactical
    from all the yelling at each other in the other threads, nobody has really agreed to weather low TTK increases or decreases tactility. I agreed to disagree and said it nor increases nor decreases rather that it is a different type of tactility. after all that makes sense, changing anything in a game will not make it "not tactical" rather differently tactical. do you agree?

  • skill ceiling
    we have also been yelling about this one and nobody agrees. again I think even though OHK means there isn't as much "aim" skill required for headshots that you would need in other games. I would argue that there is skill to be had that isn't aiming skill thus it doesn't effect the game that much, and then the larger maps make the games main skill map knowledge.

  • teamwork
    this one is dodgy because insurgency wasn't known massively or teamwork like teamwork you see in CSGO, but then this is only my knowledge which is only in 32player PvP rather than 5v5 comp matches. I would say that making it 5v5 would already make it a team game, as you have a proper team to call out to.
    But in either way, do you mind if I ask how TTK would effect teamwork anyway?

@zucchini said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

there are millions literally millions of games with the TTK you are wanting.

Name them all please. I haven't heard about them. I would be glad to explore them all and see if they also have other features that I want from my next favorite shooter.

@zucchini said in We don't want the one hit kills.:

  • Tactical
    from all the yelling at each other in the other threads, nobody has really agreed to weather low TTK increases or decreases tactility. I agreed to disagree and said it nor increases nor decreases rather that it is a different type of tactility. after all that makes sense, changing anything in a game will not make it "not tactical" rather differently tactical. do you agree?

I've also agreed that TTK does not make the game more tactical, it's the other mechanics that matter much more (movement mechanics etc.).

Yes, changing anything in the game will make gameplay different. I've been using word "tactical" to describe a game in tactical shooter genre. Yes, Quake has different tactics because of the different mechanics, but I don't call it a tactical shooter 🙂

  • skill ceiling
    we have also been yelling about this one and nobody agrees. again I think even though OHK means there isn't as much "aim" skill required for headshots that you would need in other games. I would argue that there is skill to be had that isn't aiming skill thus it doesn't effect the game that much, and then the larger maps make the games main skill map knowledge.

Yes, removing skill areas from aiming makes "map knowledge"-skill or "reaction"-skill or whatever skill bigger in proportion of all the skill areas in a game. Regardless of removing aiming skills by implementing OHK, map knowledge-skill is still as complex as it was before. Lowering or raising TTK does not make map knowledge-skill any more complex. So the skill required to master map knowledge is still the same.

Skill ceiling = total of all the skills that can be mastered by the player in a game.

Example: let's say a game has total number of skills of 10, that the player can master. If we remove 2 skills from the game, we are left with 8 skills to master. So now the skills left are bigger in proportion (1/8 instead of 1/10) but there are less skills in total, thus lower skill ceiling.

OHK would have effect only on TTK. It doesn't make areas like map knowledge any more complex. Changing map design would make map knowledge-skill more complex.

  • teamwork
    this one is dodgy because insurgency wasn't known massively or teamwork like teamwork you see in CSGO, but then this is only my knowledge which is only in 32player PvP rather than 5v5 comp matches. I would say that making it 5v5 would already make it a team game, as you have a proper team to call out to.
    But in either way, do you mind if I ask how TTK would effect teamwork anyway?

It has been said that it's harder to solo when TTK is higher, because then it's harder to take on multiple opponents at the same time. Especially if there are no mechanics to enable low TTK (like headshots). That would make it more preferable to "gang up" and move together with other players. I guess that's what public server teamwork is usually more about, moving together, not so much about very detailed, precise tactics.

Competitive teamwork is different, in my opinion. It can have much more nuances when the same players play together as a team.

last edited by jensiii

@thehappybub

Hey, I just had a closer look at your post and think it is very good. Agree with almost everything you say more or less except point 3 on heavy armour for same reasons as posted in other replies, you have organized this post in a very good manner. You seem to like realistic gear, and it is cool when games use accurate descriptions in the game as it peeks my interest in learning about the real counterparts.

The NJI standard linked below seems to give a good picture of how it works in reality even if the standard is only meant for law enforcement (physics works the same, reason for separating into civilian standards and military standards is because the military use so many tweaked weapons its not accurately comparable from what I read here).

In short: Some tweaking on the body armours in the game would be cool, especially heavier movement impact but much tougher heavy armour (As it stands I have never seen any use for equipping heavy armour in game because the speed given by light body weight is way more viable than the protection given from heavy armour). -> I like enforcement/stimulation of further class differences to add depth.

PS: TTK seems lethal as is from my point of view, further tweaking could be focused on creating class differences. So my reply has nothing to do with the topic title "We don't want the one hit kills."

SOURCES FURTHER STUDY (if someone wants to look at the realism perspective):
2.0 from article Performance standards (NIJ standards / law enforcement armors) see table:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletproof_vest
ARMY MIL-STD-662F military standard (download or open file):
http://everyspec.com/MIL-STD/MIL-STD-0500-0699/MIL-STD-662F_6718/

last edited by Pacalis

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