The sway

@solusvod said in The sway:

Its almost more efficient to just run away and repeek when the suppression is gone

I like this though. It encourages thinking about positioning constantly.

@link

No, the sway is not even close to 2-3 times that of Insurgency. It really not that much of an issue. If it is for you, then you shouldn’t be running in areas where you might need to quickly aim at someone.

@tooth-decay

You are wrong.

The stamina sway + suppression sway together are 2-3 times that of Source.

You admitted you never even tested it so how can you make factual claims? Also you did not even read my post because you didn't realize I was talking about suppression sway as well.

Do you even know there are two types of sway in the game?

edit

also how can you say you shouldn't be running in the open? You do realize the objectives and spawns are farther apart so you HAVE to run more than in source? I mean... that is if you play the objective.

last edited by Link

@thehappybub The problem is it takes ~5 seconds for suppression to dissipate. I want to fight now, not sit in a corner counting till I can use my gun without my hand shaking. Thats not really fun.

Ontop of that, if you lower the suppression, it doesnt even discourage you from repositioning! Sometimes that is what you need to do. But right now, it feels like its what you need to do the majority of the time. I dont really get an even choice between going for the initial fight or repositioning. If I peek with suppression I have a major disadvantage. In source I would only have a minor one and you can definitely fight with suppression effects.

@solusvod said in The sway:

I want to fight now

This kind of running and gunning attitude doesn't really fit well with sandstorm, imo. I think the suppression is much better than in ins2 and loads more immersive. I'd honestly argue that suppression effects need to be even more intense and that getting hit in armor should induce some sort of flinch effect.

Getting suppressed should make you not want to peak and should encourage players to always seek to be in such a position that they're not getting fired at first.

Furthermore, I think bots should experience suppression much more. Now they just shoot right back at you while you're suppressing them. They should immediately try to find cover, but AI behavior and how trash it is can be saved for the many other threads about that.

@solusvod said in The sway:

In source I would only have a minor one and you can definitely fight with suppression effects.

I don't consider this to be a good thing. I thought it was always silly in ins2 and I'm happy they increased suppression effects in Sandstorm.

Why does this even need discussion. Like..the sway currently literally rewards players with bad aim thanks to the suppression sway. Who on earth thought this is a good mechanic? Unless this game doesn't wanna be competitive ofc.

@thehappybub You realise that by constantly having to resposition, you run and gun more right? Why do I get punished because someone else cannot aim? I get shot at. He misses, now its 2x harder for me to punish my opponents mistake instead of .5 or 1x harder. Dont get me wrong, often if I peek I can get the kill - I just dont peek as much because its so much harder to get the kill - its a huge chore. Ill do what is easiest, and most efficient to get the kill.

What I do, is I run away to a new spot and shoot them. I run and gun MORE. Its really counter productive.

@solusvod I just like it because its a realistic mechanic. I see what you and @Benz are saying about it penalizing good aim. I guess its not a wonderful idea for competitive matches, I wish it'd stay in coop though.

last edited by thehappybub

@link said in The sway:

@tooth-decay

You admitted you never even tested it so how can you make factual claims?

No, now you're being dishonest. Never did I at all say I haven't tested this. I have 350+ hours of Insurgency, and I have gone back to it recently to compare the gunplay to Sandstorm. And I can tell you, while there is more sway in this, you are way over exaggerating it.

And who the fuck do you think you are with this "so how can you make factual claims?" You realize that saying there is 2-3 times more sway in this IS NOT a factual claim. So far you have made this post, plus eight replies to it, and yet not once did you make a factual claim. Now I don't expect you to analyze the code in this and give me the raw values for sway, but to then discredit others by saying they have no factual data is absurd.

Also you did not even read my post because you didn't realize I was talking about suppression sway as well.

You've really lost me with the suppression effects. I have mentioned them, and I said that I don't like them. But even with the current suppression and the stamina, it's not that much more than Insurgency. The previous Insurgency had both sway due to stamina and sway due to suppression.

also how can you say you shouldn't be running in the open? You do realize the objectives and spawns are farther apart so you HAVE to run more than in source? I mean... that is if you play the objective.

No, I said you shouldn't be running in places where you should expect enemy contact if the sway is that much of an issue to you. It's not that difficult.

last edited by Tooth Decay

Yeah, the sway is way too much, even higher than Arma 3, but no need to remove it, if you really don't like sway in competitive, just remove it for competitive only. Suppression is good, back in INS2, the suppression effect makes half your screen blurry.

@link said in The sway:

what game mode do you play?

Have you ever studied the sway of being out of breath AND being suppressed in game?

There is a ton of sway in this game compared to source. As I said it's not about realism, it's about what is fun. And to be honest, I think it is above realistic sway.

Yes how DARE anyone who is totally fucking out of breath AND being suppressed actually not have perfectly still aim. THE HUMANITY! OMG WHAT WERE THE DEVS THINKING WHEN THEY MADE SOMEONE WHO JUST SPRINTED 200 METERS AND ARE CURRENTLY UNDER A HAIL OF FIRE NOT HAVE PERFECT AIM OMG LOL #WORSTDEVSEVARRRRR

Just because you had fun in a game from 2004 doesn't mean every game that comes after has to have the exact same feel to it... You're the only one comparing this game to "source" and tbh no one really knows why you're doing that other than you have some PERSONAL PREFERENCE that you want this game to be identical, but with better graphics...

last edited by AMURKA

@link

That's funny, I've just tested things out on both games, and it became apparent that Ins2 had more sway than Ins:SS. I think your problem lies in the fact the new game has several problems/features that make your target harder to hit.

  1. hit registration - obvious one and I'm surprised you haven't mentioned this. And probably is the biggest factor

  2. Lag and networking issue (which could be related to the first point)

  3. bullet speed and bullet drop - for 100m + engagements, this is a factor.

  4. Janky movements of players (extreme accelerations which makes things hard to hit, further made difficult in combination with server lags)

  5. They ARE hit, just doesn't seem like it - No slowing effect when you get shot, so this could also be a factor.

  6. You may just be out of stamina all the time due to the larger maps

I recommend you actually test it out for yourself. I've used M4A1, AKM, M249 as bench marks, and other than the M249, Ins:SS had barely any sway while standing, whereas M249 was still quite steady considering its weight.

From realism point of view, no, paint ball is not a good analogue, and the amount of sway in game with M249 while standing is close to an M16 while prone in my opinion (no bipod) or a bit less than that. I found the game sway to be quite easy to compensate for.

For the suppression part, I also think it is a null point, as in gameplay wise, it is a mechanic to force snipers, or gunners to get back in cover, and would promote teamplay to cover each other. And realistically, getting shot will give you a surge of adrenaline which would make your hands very shaky.

I think your point on vehicles or map size could be a different topic, but the sway I feel, you are on a null point for the multiple reasons I have mentioned, and I think your experiencing different factors in play.

@io543 said in The sway:

I found the game sway to be quite easy to compensate for

Yea I was kind of surprised that this post even existed because I never considered sway to be that problematic.

last edited by thehappybub

@io543

I have tested it, multiple times...did you do a comparison when tired? when suppressed?

When standing still it is fine, that is not what I am talking about.

I will do the test, again, for you guys and show you. I know most of you guys don't believe it and that's okay.

@ctbear1996 I never said remove it...

@link I have tested for tiredness, but not suppressed while tired. I can see what you mean when suppressed as well, it is a bit hectic in SS than what I remember from Ins2. However, it still doesn't occur to me that it should be reduced, since it does it's job to make long range engagements difficult while suppressed. since SS does have more open areas, seems reasonable enough that it should have more suppression sway.

Edit: actually, while being suppressed, it was still quite ok (and somewhat still easy) to compensate for the sway. And for being tired+suppressed, you shouldn't be engaging long distance in that case...

last edited by io543

On Farmhouse firefight the sway come into effect once you get near the sewage river and have long lanes to look down and watch/cover, so it's not even a long sprint to make the sway come into effect. I don't think it's even 100 meters from spawn to the river. Anyhow, even if there was no sway or minimal sway you still couldn't pull off the long range shots because weapons don't kill in 1 shot.

@link I re-read your OP. I understand your argument against sway in a competitive game mode or a competitive game in gereneral. I mainly play push, so tempo is totally different. And push is so different game mode IMO where a lot features can be used for realist/believability/immersion etc., that wouldn't be acceptable in a competitive game mode.

But still, I'm not the best person to be commenting on how things should be in a competitive game mode 🙂

A general question relating to sway: doesn't focus eliminate sway? I also use it a lot and find it to be very stable. What do you think about using focus?

@io543 Watch my video...

Actually it is quite bad even for close range... a big issue is how erratic the movement is in sandstorm compared to source. There was sway that did move your aim but it wasn't jittery, it was smooth so it was easier to counter.

Sorry for quite mic, didnt really sound check it just made it quick (also recording settings were off so low quality video but it works).

Youtube Video

last edited by Link

@jensiii

It does matter in push because you need to run A LOT to get to objectives, especially with how big the maps are in sandstorm now. It's mainly the suppression that really gets you.

in source you can focus immediately

in sandstorm if you are tired you cannot focus until you regain stamina

also check out my video 😃

last edited by Link