I think some weapons need changing

Tl;dr at the bottom
The more I play this game, the more I see the balancing flaws. Some weapons are absolutely worthless, while others make the game a cakewalk. For reading's sake, I'm going to compose this post into a list of weapons, how I feel they are now, and what I think should be done to them.

Storm Bolter MK1 + MK2
The storm bolter if a very iconic weapon, it is almost as iconic as the terminator armor itself for Space Hulk, however I don't think anyone will disagree when I say it is one of, if not the weakest weapon in the game. It might as well be shooting paint-balls, especially when you got other guns that can be just as accurate, and deal some damage. I think the storm bolter tries to be a jack of all trades, but fails miserably, as generally a jack of all trades is proficient at everything. I think the Storm Bolter should be a sniper weapon, to capitalize on it's pinpoint accuracy, which really is the only thing it has going for it. To facilitate this, the Storm Bolter should recieve a massive damage modifier on headshots, greater than any other weapon, with everything smaller than a warrior going doing in one shot. Of course, I feel like this could be overpowered, so I think the Broodlords, Scythes, and maybe Warriors should not recieve an as-large modifier on headshot, perhaps only a 5x, while everything else should be 10-15x. This will make the Storm Bolter an exceedingly strong weapon in the hands of someone willing to master it, while also keeping the heat on the player if a Scythe shows up, or if the Genestealers close the distance

Hellfire
The hellfire is the strongest weapon in the game, aside from the plasma cannon, it has just about everything. Damage, AoE, Stunlock on smaller genestealers, and is almost as accurate as the storm bolter. I think this is the weapon that requires the most sweeping changes. What I propose is to keep the Hellfire as a crowd-clearing weapon, just make it so it has to put in work to clear crowds. First and foremost, however, the AoE has to been severely toned down, both for the sake of my eyes, and for balance, the AoE visuals should really only be the size of a Genestealer head, and as for the damage radius, make it so that the AoE only really effects one, maybe two adjacent genestealers. Secondly, decrease it's damage so it's doing only slightly more damage per body shot than that of a regular storm bolter, but to make up for this, give the Hellfire 50% more ammo, and a fire rate comparable to the Storm Bolter. In addition, tone down the accuracy, and make it so that only headshots have a chance to stun targets (Given the fire rate I think it should have, it should only have a 25% chance to stun anything smaller than a Warrior, a 10% chance to stun a warrior, and no chance to stun giants), while not applying the Storm Bolter's headshot bonus, to keep the Storm Bolter from being completely overshadowed by it. I feel like these changes will bring it in-line with non-heavy weapons, and emphasize Apothecary's support role should they decide to use it, the major downside, of course, being that the hellfire will barely be the same weapon.

Plasma Cannon
The plasma cannon is mostly fine - It is a heavy weapon, after all, except I'd change it to only headshots guaranteeing a stun on Scythes and Broodlords, body shots should only carry a 25 - 40% chance of stunning, so that the speed modulator is useful outside of friendly fire servers. Also maybe make it so that any small targets caught in the blast do not get staggered, only direct hits should stagger enemies. Aside from that, make it considerably more inaccurate when moving. I feel these changes will make it less of a cheese weapon, and reward players who get good with the weapon, and not punish the players who are already good with the weapon

Lightning Claws
Lightning Claws are the only melee-focused weapon that non-assault terminators have access to, so I understand why it pales in comparison to all other melee weapons, however I feel it should still be a useful tool in the face of other melee weapons. I suggest that when letting an attack loose (Not holding or charging one, but mid-swing only) it Autoparries anything that hits the terminator, save for Scythes and Broodlords. I feel like this will make it unique from Purgatory Sword / Thunder Hammer as it still won't one-shot everything, and it will not mitigate all damage like the storm shield does, but it will keep the Lightning claws feeling like lightning claws, with emphasis on being a striking weapon, keeping combat dangerous, and more fast-paced for lightning claws users. That, and you won't have to literally blind yourself to block an attack, being as the parry animation raises your claws so you literally cannot see anything in front of you. Perhaps these changes will even make Lightning claws a viable choice for Assault, although I feel like the storm shield and being able to clear crowds in a few strikes with Thunder Hammers and Purgatory Swords will always be the main draw for assault.

Heavy Flamer
A little powerful, make the flames darker, and perhaps translucent, make it go through ammo faster so you can't just flame out a hallway for five minutes. This will make the flamer a better weapon vs Warriors, Scythes, and Broodlords, but will force the user to have some trigger discipline when facing down larger hordes. Also remove any stuns it deals, I feel like the fire rate increase will mean the Heavy Flamer will still hold it's own down hallways. Aside from that, it's a really good weapon.

Redemption
Make it so that the accuracy isn't lowered much when moving, making it the sort of run-and-gun go-to weapon. Aside from that, it's a really good weapon, and I don't feel it needs any balance changes

Thunder Hammer
Make it so the AoE does not extend behind the terminator, making it a usable weapon in FF servers, while making it less of a cakewalk for non-FF servers

Mace of Absolution
Keep the AoE as it is, so it will have it's own use, and not be a discount thunder hammer, allowing the Mace Wielder to destroy targets behind them is a major boon, and I feel like the only way to make it viable without a total rework is to change the thunder hammer.

Spear of Caliban
Should be almost the same as the Hellfire, except it deals better AoE, and has better accuracy, at the cost of a funny-working magazine and being unable to stun enemies

Vengeance + Assault Cannon
The Assault cannon and it's variant are really good weapons, and don't need much change. Firstly, make it almost as accurate as a Storm Bolter when standing completely still (Recoil remains unchanged, of course) and give it a small headshot buff compared to what it deals now. In addition, they should become wildly inaccurate when moving and firing. This is to keep the Assault Cannon true to the feel of the original space hulk games, while retaining it's viability, as well as making crusader a more useful skill to activate for tight situations

I feel the changes I've listed will help make weapons more distinct from each-other, while making them more viable, as each weapon having their own role will help prevent balancing issues from arising.

Tl;dr
Nerf Hellfire
Buff Bolter

last edited by Rotiart

i would only buff the base dmg of the bolter

i agree with the changes to hellfire when it comes to the aoe and visuales but if you make same dmg as bolter and keeping the firerate it could need hours to kill xD

plasma cannon yeah its fucking op you can stop hords or 10 bls at once with it it needs a nerf

but not to much i think its a weapon for casual players not very skilled when they need something to safe them selfs in lion/no mercy i would just cut the fire rate in half or even less very simple nerf but i think this will do the trick cause then you have to really think about when you shoot or not

the flamer visuals are like a perma flashbang you just blind your whole squad and your self that really needs a change
im not sure if i get you right here if you mean incresing the firerate wich also would increase the dps i would agree cause i think the flamer needs a bit more burst dmg just a bit not to much and i would increase the range by one or a half meter

most players play vengence or assault cannon and i would not change there acc when moving cause when you do that then you will have only camping players and they already killing so many squads pls dont make this more worse

camp and you will die ofc there are situations you have to sit it out but to avoid stalker attacks the best way is to be like a boxer and move like one cause when you already in motion you can react better

i see so many players standing there in one point shooting one direction then 1-2 stalker happy seeing this jump on them and they ofc die why? because they didnt move its simple as that

this game is about fighting while advancing it is good that you coud hit something while moving i wouldnt change the vengence or assault cannon at all when it comes to that

also the headshot dmg on them hmm when you increase it they could become op specialy with the acc incease you want on them when standing still

i think the ac is perfect as it is cant say something about vengence (in my opinion useless because of ac xD)

i love the spread on the redemtion when moveing i go like hmm croud lets move and shoot hmm far away gunner lets hold and get acc and boom boom its like 2 fire mods you know i wouldnt change that redemption is perfect as it is in my opinion

i play claws very often i love them the thing is i do not block with them i dont use block at all because blocking in this game sux there is a delay and you cant hold block while swinging and then the block comes up no you have to push the button when the animation has ended that sux in my opinion

but anyways if you hit first with meele you dont need block at all but i agree with some kind of auto parry i mean why not it could make it feel more tense when there is some kind of parry animation here and there meele combat needs more hitfeedback anyways

in short:

bolter buff yes but only base dmg no headshot dmg

plasma cannon needs nerf (reduce fire rate to half or less)

flamer increased firerate and range both just a bit

no changes to ac and vengence specially the moving acc (to avoid camping)

no changes to redemption ( having two spread patterns makes the weapon more versatile)

autoparry animation on claws could make fighting with them more fun but depends how its introduced (may better to leave it as it is or you come up with something making them unfun to play) better rework the whole blocking mechanics

i never will understand why people play with ff on in this game i have now 140 hours of play time i played around 20 games with ff on 3-5 of them we made it the others we shot us dead or couldnt shoot the killing enemys because they where to close to teammates

the guys always come up with this its about realism man and i told you boy you play a very very unrealistic game here if this would be real these genestealers would finish a squad of 4 members in under 10 seconds no matter what weapons they wield

the friendly fire in my opinion with weapons like plasma cannon flamer hellfire thunder hammer and so on is the biggest nonsense i have ever seen friendly fire is for games like arma or cs:go not for games like this

i mean think about vermintide2 with meele friendly fire xD ik this is shdwee but its the same thing it makes no sense at all but ofc you guys are free to slaugther each other on and on if that makes you happy xD

i just forgot it the thunder hammer i think i can totally agree with these changes cause it does not really make sense to me that the aoe splash reaches behind the player

thats it im done 🙂

@grimmsche said in I think some weapons need changing:

i would only buff the base dmg of the bolter

The problem with that is you need to get it just so otherwise it'll be unbalanced. If you're buffing the base damage, it might entirely overshadow something like the redemption, even in close quarters. If you force the Bolter into it's own niche where it performs well, but performs unwell everywhere else, you don't have to worry about the weapon overshadowing or being entirely outperformed by some other weapon

i agree with the changes to hellfire when it comes to the aoe and visuales but if you make same dmg as bolter and keeping the firerate it could need hours to kill xD

Yeah. I suggest upping the fire-rate to automatic, around the same speed as the current regular bolter, and lower the AoE to 2-3 genestealers, (Keep the visual AoE to like, maybe the size of a genestealer's head as to avoid blinding the team) the Hellfire being able to stun the enemies would be a very powerful tool against hordes, especially coupled with the AoE. Hence why I wanted to damage to be toned way down, as it's basically a blinding plasma cannon that you can use on FF servers, save for giants not being stunned by the Hellfire.

im not sure if i get you right here if you mean incresing the firerate wich also would increase the dps

Aye, increase the DPS, but make it so you have to reload more often, so you don't just sit in one place for an entire swarm, while also making it so the swarm has a much more difficult time breaking through your flames.

most players play vengence or assault cannon and i would not change there acc when moving cause when you do that then you will have only camping players and they already killing so many squads pls dont make this more worse

I haven't encountered any camping problems. The main reason I suggested this was to make the Crusader ability more useful, and to separate it from being a better bolter in every aspect. You should still be able to clear swarms with the AC/Vengeance on the move, but they'll frequently close the distance between them and you if you don't stop moving. The flip side is if you do stop moving, you should only need a couple of seconds to clear a swarm out.

this game is about fighting while advancing it is good that you coud hit something while moving

That's what the rest of the team is for. Cover your heavy weapons while he gets in position, and you'll be paid back tenfold in the blood of Genestealers.

i love the spread on the redemtion when moveing i go like hmm croud lets move and shoot hmm far away gunner lets hold and get acc and boom boom its like 2 fire mods you know i wouldnt change that redemption is perfect as it is in my opinion

Aye, I just kinda felt you have to use the accuracy module on the redemption, I felt like by making it not lose accuracy by moving it would open it up to the damage module

but anyways if you hit first with meele you dont need block at all but i agree with some kind of auto parry i mean why not it could make it feel more tense when there is some kind of parry animation here and there meele combat needs more hitfeedback anyways

I wanted to make the Claws feel distinct from the Shield bearing weapons. In Space Hulk Ascension, the Claws were not so good at defense, but were really good for attacking genestealers. I feel like the autoparry would work two-fold, firstly by making it ideal for a claw-bearing terminator to be always on the attack, and secondly, one of the problems I faced while using the claws is that even though I interrupt an attack, sometimes it'll be a little too late in the animation and the damage will go through anyway, which is a real pain if the genestealers just so happen to crit your head on that one attack

i dont think the bolter would overshadow the redemption or an other weapon then really the bolter is in every players mouth when its about the question what is the weakest weapon and on the other hand the redemtion is a lot of fun and has enough power as it is im honest i dont think it gets over shadowed there will only be more players who can finally play there bolter as they ever wanted and the redemtion players (me included i love the redemtion) can play there weapon i have no fear about that ofc if you push the dmg of the bolter to much like it will kill a stalker in 3 hits then ofc then you have a problem then every bob will run around with bolter thats clear but this will not happen anyways im still waiting for ingame voip as we all since one year xD

The thing about buffing the Bolter's damage is you will have to straddle the line between being horrible in close quarters, but strong enough to knock genestealers out before they can close much distance, and honestly I think that would be a lot more difficult than just forcing it into it's own niche

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