The MP7

So while it's one of my favorite guns in the game right now, it's got some problems that make it feel less viable than other breacher weapons.

Main problem is the magazine capacity - a lousy 20 rounds. With how fast this gun shoots, you'll burn through that in no time at all. The extended magazine is pretty much a must have, and, combined with the cost of the weapon itself, you're losing 7 supply just to your primary alone. Add in barrel attachments like a compensator or suppressor, and now you're up to 10 supply invested just in your primary weapon, not to mention a weapon that isn't as versatile as the Mk18 or have the sheer stopping power of the shotgun.

Can the extended magazine just be integrated into the weapon by default, or have its cost reduced?

While it's not that big of a deal, the MP7's flip up sights are also pretty ugly. The rear sight ring is too wide and gives you a very narrow sight picture. Would it be possible to make the rear sight ring thinner so the flip up sights are actually a viable alternative to electronic sights?

@quadsword The MP7 is chambered for special AP rounds and it should tear through targets much quicker than it does right now. If they fixed that and tweaked the extended mag cost I think it'd be just fine. I also love using the MP7.

I agree, the rear sight was thinner (much like the MK18's one) in other games like MoH Warfighter. It isn't a bad weapon per se but it can be a costly primary to have.

That being said, i'm more baffled of the uselessnes of the M45A1 in the game... What is the point of having that handgun in your loadout when the L105A1 does the job, at a faster rof, much higher capacity and the same potential 2 shot kill? It's better to have 2 hits than 1 miss, especially when you're using a 1911 style of handgun.

@vengefulmosquito the 1911 should hit like a truck.

@thehappybub Of course, it's a .45 caliber but the trade off is not really worth it if you wanna engage more than 1 enemy, it can kill and is a good weapon but there's a better alternative, just like irl, equipment tends to get outdated, they have seen the end of their run and are therefore obsolete. And this is coming from a guy that mained the 1911 and variants in a few games.

Still, if you ask me. The stopping power of the .45 is a pure myth. No better than a 9mm. Nice gun, but in combat, you can never have enough ammo.

last edited by VengefulMosquito

I feel like it'd be more appropriate in the insurgent's sidearm repertoire and should just be straight removed from the security side.

I think the MP7 should weigh a little bit less than the Mk18, because right now they are the same weight.

If they implemented faster ADS with lighter guns, it would help the MP7.

Game needs a damage model/bullet to player interaction and not to mention movement/acceleration re-vamp in general before specific weapon tweaks.

@jarple Now that I think about it, there are a lot of little discrepancies with weapon weight.

An M4A1 weighs more than an M16A4, even though it's smaller. The MP7 weighs as much as a Mk18 carbine despite being much smaller.

@Quadsword Yeah it's not right aye. It's a minor annoyance, but I hope it get's addressed sometime down the road.

should be a lot lighter with 40 round mag standard, no need for extended mag. recoil should really be reduced. 4.5mm round it uses should be AP standard. any gun with ghost ring/ peep sights should have rear sight fuzzed out, the rear ring should not be perfectly focused and should be fuzzy/ out of focus.

The thing with extended mags is that is essentially gives you more rounds. This is how is works in a huge majority of existing games, if not in every shooter.

Taking the extended mag on the MP7 literally doubles your total ammo pool, which is absurd when you think about it. It's basically a no brainier choice on the MP7, because you burn through your mags real quick if you don't. Additionally, on the AKS-74U, you can go from 30 to 50 via the extended drum, so it's in the same boat as the MP7 (In comparison when in co-op using the drum). Although since you start off with 30 rounds per mag there is a justifiable reason not to always take it. However, It's not as big of a deal for other weapons like on the AKM because it only increases mag size by 5 (in versus, talking about the extended mag, not the drum).

We can see how many extra rounds we get when using the extended mag by this formula:


Bonus Ammo From Extended Magazine Attachment = (magazine size with extended mag - magazine size without extended mag) multiplied by (total magazine limit due to ammo carrier choice)


Examples:

You get 140 bonus rounds from extended magazine attachment on the MP7 in combination with the Heavy Carrier.
(40-20) * 7 = 140.

You get 100 bonus rounds from extended magazine attachment on the MP7 in combination with the Light Carrier.
(40-20) * 5 = 100.

You get 140 bonus rounds from extended drum magazine attachment on the AKS-74U in combination with the Heavy Carrier.
(50-30) * 7 = 140.

You get 100 bonus rounds from extended drum magazine attachment on the AKS-74U in combination with the Light Carrier.
(50-30) * 5 = 100.

You get 35 bonus rounds from extended magazine attachment on the AKM in combination with the Heavy Carrier.
(35-30) * 7 = 35.

You get 25 bonus rounds from extended magazine attachment on the AKM in combination with the Light Carrier.
(35-30) * 5 = 25.

You can see that you get more bonus rounds the bigger the difference between 'magazine size with extended mags' and 'magazine size without extended mags' and the better your ammo carrier is. Your character pretty much ignores the weight of these extra bonus bullets generated by equipping extended mags.

If you pick extended mags, depending on how many bonus rounds you get from the attachment, there should be a weight increase because your essentially carrying more rounds. So when equipping extended magazines on the MP7, your overall weight would increase more than if you equipped extended mags on an AKM (this is not saying that the MP7 will then weigh more than an AKM).


[TLDM] (Too Long Didn't Math)
Not only do extended magazines allow you to potentially kill more targets in succession before reloading but it also increases your total ammo (100% increase in the case of the MP7), OP! The supply cost shouldn't be changed. If you lower it, it's only more of a no brainer choice. If you increase the cost, it then becomes another semi-instance of AP rounds in which you always grab it and in-turn limiting other load-out choices. Something else should be changed (see the paragraph above). However and once again, this game needs some more re-vamping and patch iterations that hopefully fix weapon imbalances.

last edited by Jarple

@jarple said in The MP7:

[TLDM] (Too Long Didn't Math)
Not only do extended magazines allow you to potentially kill more targets in succession before reloading but it also increases your total ammo (100% increase in the case of the MP7), OP! The supply cost shouldn't be changed.

You do realize that it takes four shots to kill someone with Heavy Armor, right? Without Extended Mags the MP7 isn't even a viable weapon at all. The Extended Mag is a necessary attachment and for seven supply I can instead buy an M14 EBR with a Long Barrel and a Red Dot Sight, which is about ten times better than the MP7.

IMO you should be complaining about the Glock 17 that also gets about double the ammo from Extended Mags for two supply, since you can only get up to four pistol mags as opposed to seven for most primaries, the gun costs less than the MP7, it takes three shots to kill a target wearing Heavy Armor instead of four, every class can purchase it as opposed to only Breacher classes, and it's more controllable than the terrible recoil on the MP7 (with a compensator it's super controllable, and pistol comps are only one supply).

EDIT: Not to mention for three supply on the same class you can just buy a shotgun that basically fires 9-12 MP7 rounds with one click.

EDIT2: Actually the MP7 is a three-shot against Heavy Armor now. It's still kind of shit compared to other weapons.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@vengefulmosquito said in The MP7:

That being said, i'm more baffled of the uselessnes of the M45A1 in the game... What is the point of having that handgun in your loadout when the L105A1 does the job, at a faster rof, much higher capacity and the same potential 2 shot kill? It's better to have 2 hits than 1 miss, especially when you're using a 1911 style of handgun.

^^^^^^This 100%. A problem caused by the armor nerf on Sept. 6th that allows a 9mm pistol to two-shot Heavy Armor.

@MarksmanMax Just chill out, seriously. I think you're extracting some other kind of information/answer from my post that wasn't intended lol.

I don't like that extended mags is a 'must have' on the MP7. The solution the post creator said was to lower the supply cost of extended mags, and that is just silly in my opinion. That mean's you'll get somewhere between 100-140 bonus rounds (100% increase) and twice the duration for maintaining fire/double mag size before reloading all for just 3 supply cost or less. The post creator even suggested that the MP7 should have extended mags equipped by DEFAULT! Talk about zero foresight with the balance complications that brings.

Extended mags is OP on the MP7, FACT, that's why everyone takes it and it's un-viable without it. I presented mathematical evidence to show just how strong extended mags is on something like the MP7. What I was saying is changing the supply cost just makes the situation worse because:

  • If it's cheaper, you'll still take it no matter what because it's an overloaded-hella-strong attachment
  • If It's more expensive, you've literally further tied the effectiveness of the MP7 to the extended mags attachment, basically creating another instance of AP rounds and how if you don't use it then you're at a major disadvantage.

You do realize that I said the game needs an overall re-vamping in terms of movement/damage before we heavily change individual weapons.
You do realize that the MP7 still has a ridiculous fire rate, so 'four shots' goes out real quick.
You do realize that the Glock isn't even in the same category as the MP7.
You do realize that the Glock fires 9mm and not 4.6x30 AP like the MP7.
You do realize that the Glock fires ~4 times slower than the MP7.
You do realize that the Glock has HALF the velocity of the MP7.
You do realize that the Glock has HALF the effective range of the MP7.
You do realize that the Glock has HALF the penetration power of the MP7.
You do realize that you actually don't need the compensator on the MP7, just crouch every time you shoot lol, it's common knowledge in the current state of INS:S.
You do realize that you only get 64 bonus rounds from extended mags on the Glock and even less if not using Heavy Carrier.
You do realize that 64 bonus rounds from glock extended mags is LESS THAN HALF of the 140 bonus rounds the MP7 gets with extended mags.
You do realize that bringing up and comparing gun after gun to the MP7 just so you have some argument points isn't a great way to go about it.
You do realize that extracting only part of a quote and taking it out of context to then argue against it is a great way to get roasted.

I can play the 'You do realize' card as well. I'm on your side though, I don't want the MP7's effectiveness tied to extended mags, that's exactly what my post was about lol.

EDIT: 🙂

EDIT2: 🙂

last edited by Jarple

@jarple said in The MP7:

@MarksmanMax Just chill out, seriously. I think you're extracting some other kind of information/answer from my post that wasn't intended lol.

Might've been a little harsh lmao but I like to think critically about this kind of stuff.

@jarple said in The MP7:

@MarksmanMax Just chill out, seriously. I think you're extracting some other kind of information/answer from my post that wasn't intended lol.

I don't like that extended mags is a 'must have' on the MP7. The solution the post creator said was to lower the supply cost of extended mags, and that is just silly in my opinion. That mean's you'll get somewhere between 100-140 bonus rounds (100% increase) and twice the duration for maintaining fire/double mag size before reloading all for just 3 supply cost or less. The post creator even suggested that the MP7 should have extended mags equipped by DEFAULT! Talk about zero foresight with the balance complications that brings.

Well +1 since I also think that the Ext. Mags are required for the MP7 to be somewhat useful.

-> You do get double the ammo capacity (and double the killing potential). The problem is that the killing potential for the MP7 is already pretty garbage and while Ext. Mags can help remedy that it's not worth the seven supply. Why mod a gun that's garbage when you can just spend that supply on a better gun (like shotguns, which are cheaper already, or the Mk 18 which is ten times better).

-> Meanwhile, an Ext. Mag on a Mk. 18 is only one supply, and that gives you 35 rounds as opposed to the MP7's 40 and the Mk. 18 does far more damage than the MP7 does.

-> For the MP7 to be somewhat viable at medium range (and even close range) you also pretty much need a Compensator (and this comes from a guy who doesn't run a Comp or Foregrip often at all), so that's a total of ten supply for a decent firearm. It's just not economical.

@jarple said in The MP7:

Extended mags is OP on the MP7, FACT, that's why everyone takes it and it's un-viable without it. I presented mathematical evidence to show just how strongly extended mags is on something like the MP7.

-> Extended mags aren't OP on the MP7 at all. It converts the MP7 from a garbage gun to a decent gun, and for seven supply you can buy pretty much any other gun and mod it and it's a far better choice. As for why "everyone" takes the MP7, I don't know, although anyone I see playing Breacher runs a shotgun so I don't know who these people are.

Anyone running an MP7 clearly doesn't know how strong shotguns are lmao.

@jarple said in The MP7:What I was saying is changing the supply cost just makes the situation worse because:

  • If it's cheaper, you'll still take it no matter what because it's an overloaded-hella-strong attachment
  • If It's more expensive, you've literally further tied the effectiveness of the MP7 to the extended mags attachment, basically creating another instance of AP rounds and how if you don't use it then you're at a major disadvantage.

-> If it's cheaper, you'll buy it because it's required for the gun to not suck.

-> The MP7 is already reliant on the Ext. Mags attachment because 20 bullets with the RPM of that SMG is never enough. Changing the supply cost has nothing to do with that.

-> More ammo per mag is completely different from AP rounds. Both allow you to get more kills per magazine, but that's the only similarity. AP ammo gives your gun about four times extra damage. I'd take AP over more bullets in Ins2014 any day. More ammo means nothing if you can't shoot all of it before you die. It just means you can spray everywhere easier and prefire every corner.

@jarple said in The MP7:

You do realize that I said the game needs an overall re-vamping in terms of movement/damage before we heavily change individual weapons.

Where, exactly?

@jarple said in The MP7:

You do realize that the MP7 still has a ridiculous fire rate, so 'four shots' goes out real quick.
You do realize that the Glock isn't even in the same category as the MP7.

I honestly can't remember the exact firerate of the MP7. I'll assume it's 900 (which is generous tbh).

In theory, if an AKM fires two shots at 600 RPM and the MP7 fires three shots at 900 RPM, then both guns have the exact same TTK since a Heavy Armor target dies in two 7.62x39 shots or three 4.6x30mm shots.

Then you have this problem where you have 5.56 weapons (like the Mk. 18) that fire considerably faster than 600 RPM and still kill in two Torso shots.

Then you have weapons that have one-shot capabilities (either by default or by cheesing the Long Barrel attachment on .308 battle rifles) that the MP7 also can't compete against (while a shotgun can).

The Glock isn't in the same category as an MP7. Yeah, I know that. No shit. The problem is that it outperforms the MP7 completely. With an Ext. Mag and a Compensator, it has better recoil control and better damage and is much cheaper (5 supply compared to the 7 for the MP7 /w Ext Mag).

@jarple said in The MP7:

You do realize that the Glock fires 9mm and not 4.6x30 AP like the MP7.
You do realize that the Glock fires ~4 times slower than the MP7.

-> Yeah. I knew that already lmao.

As I already pointed out, both calibers are roughly the same. 9mm is actually better since it two-shots unarmored targets while the MP7 can't.

-> How fast the Glock fires depends on how fast you can mash the mouse button lmao.

You do realize that the Glock has HALF the velocity of the MP7.
You do realize that the Glock has HALF the effective range of the MP7.
You do realize that the Glock has HALF the penetration power of the MP7.

-> Yeah, because you're gonna snipe someone at range with an MP7. You're actually better with a Glock at that point unless you spent too much supply to be able to full-auto past five meters and actually hit something.

-> Also, just to mention, both the M45 and L106A1 two-shot Heavy Armor players in CQB making those pistols even better choices (unless you like a handgun with 33 fucking rounds lol).

You do realize that you actually don't need the compensator on the MP7, just crouch every time you shoot lol, it's common knowledge in the current state of INS:S.'

I knew that already. I was actually one of the first people to point that out myself. I can link the vid if you wanna see it lmao.

Also, that doesn't even make the gun viable for me. Meanwhile, I can laser 30 rounds of a Mk 18 at a target 50 meters away with probably about a 8-12 inch grouping since there's zero horizontal recoil.

You do realize that you only get 64 bonus rounds from extended mags on the Glock and even less if not using Heavy Carrier.
You do realize that 64 bonus rounds from glock extended mags is LESS THAN HALF of the 140 bonus rounds the MP7 gets with extended mags.

-> How many rounds are you firing, though? The Glock 17 doesn't have full-auto, and using semi-auto on the MP7 is a terrible idea IMO since the damage is so garbage.

Also, those extra 33/66 bullets cost you two supply on a pistol that costs two supply. The MP7's forty rounds requires seven supply.

You do realize that bringing up and comparing gun after gun to the MP7 just so you have some argument points isn't a great way to go about it.

-> I'm just saying how shit this gun is. It doesn't need another nerf.

You do realize that extracting only part of a quote and taking it out of context to then argue against it is a great way to get roasted.

  1. I extracted part of it because honestly the post was too long lmao. Also, most of the post was just examples of extra ammo counts. I can do math lol.

  2. I extracted the part that literally summed up your entire post (TL;DR?).

  3. How'd I take this quote out of context?

I can play the 'You do realize' card as well. I'm on your side though, I don't want the MP7's effectiveness tied to extended mags, that's exactly what my post was about lol.

I mean, you can play the "You do realize" card, although you have to state facts that I don't already know about the game for it to work lmao.

The MP7 honestly just needs 40 rounds by default since it's already far outgunned by other weapons (even the weapons in the same class).

EDIT: 🙂

EDIT2: 🙂

get yer smilies outta here

last edited by MarksmanMax

@vengefulmosquito said in The MP7:

That being said, i'm more baffled of the uselessnes of the M45A1 in the game... What is the point of having that handgun in your loadout when the L105A1 does the job, at a faster rof, much higher capacity and the same potential 2 shot kill? It's better to have 2 hits than 1 miss, especially when you're using a 1911 style of handgun.

I'm @ing you again since after tests I just realized that the L106A1 is actually better than the Uzi Submachine gun. It has better velocity. Out of a shorter barrel. From the same cartridge. A 9mm pistol can two-shot Heavy Armor while a 9mm SMG can't.

#TheMoreYouKnow

EDIT: That probably also means that if you could put a Long Barrel on an Uzi the gun would two-shot Heavy Armor lol.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@marksmanmax said in The MP7:

@vengefulmosquito said in The MP7:

That being said, i'm more baffled of the uselessnes of the M45A1 in the game... What is the point of having that handgun in your loadout when the L105A1 does the job, at a faster rof, much higher capacity and the same potential 2 shot kill? It's better to have 2 hits than 1 miss, especially when you're using a 1911 style of handgun.

I'm @ing you again since after tests I just realized that the L106A1 is actually better than the Uzi Submachine gun. It has better velocity. Out of a shorter barrel. From the same cartridge. A 9mm pistol can two-shot Heavy Armor while a 9mm SMG can't.

#TheMoreYouKnow

EDIT: That probably also means that if you could put a Long Barrel on an Uzi the gun would two-shot Heavy Armor lol.

REALISM

@jarple said in The MP7:

However and once again, this game needs some more re-vamping and patch iterations that hopefully fix weapon imbalances.

@jarple said in The MP7:

Game needs a damage model/bullet to player interaction and not to mention movement/acceleration re-vamp in general before specific weapon tweaks.

I said this twice, in two different posts. There is literally no point in further rebutting / discussing, we'll just be recycling redundant facts and our opinions and there's no new takes here lol. We both agree the MP7 relies on the extended mags, and that's the real issue.

The MP7 doesn't need another nerf yes I agree, but the MP7 can't rely on extended mags to be useful, so an overall re-vamps to damage/health/armor/movement need to occur so that the MP7 naturally becomes viable even at 20 rounds.

When I was comparing the MP7 extended mags with the AP rounds attachment drama, I was saying that the weapon relies too much on having a certain attachment.

Props to responding to each point, but, you're post is also too long lol.

🙂 I'ma keep at least one smiley.

@jarple said in The MP7:

Props to responding to each point, but, you're post is also too long lol.

Lmao this is an accurate summary of pretty much all of my posts.

last edited by MarksmanMax

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