The biggest issue for me so far

(Besides the AI)

The way recoil currently works. I don't like it. I don't like how weapons either a) have strictly vertical recoil with next to no side to side kick or b) have completely random side to side recoil that makes it borderline unusable without a compensator (RIP in pepperonis MP7).

Additionally, there's too much disparity with the amount of recoil felt between crouching and standing. After some testing in local play, I've found that crouching is basically like getting a free foregrip on your weapon with how much it mitigates kick. Combine that with the recoil reduction of an actual foregrip and your gun basically becomes a laser.

Solutions:

  • Make it so that kind of recoil reduction can only be had while prone.
  • Nerf crouch recoil reduction to maybe 1/5 of what it is now.
  • All weapons should have predictable side to side recoil with no or at least very very little randomness.

Better solution:

  • Chuck the foregrip and compensator in the bin and just balance all weapons around one recoil pattern (per weapon, of course). Attachments that make it easier to shoot at people are always going to be a must have in order to stay competitive no matter what.

maybe you need to adjust your mouse settings ingame
equip the akm without forgrip and keep adjusting the sensitivity unless u feel the spray is most accurate upto 20mtrs.

I agree with all the Solutions at the top (first 3), but not the last about removing the fore-grip ahah. The fore-grip can just have it's recoil reduction lowered and maybe it's supply cost as well, not sure, depends on how much crouch is changed.

@jarple Eh, I don't know, honestly. Even with its effectiveness reduced, I have a hard time seeing the foregrip as anything but a must have. Take a look at something like Rainbow Six Siege. You never see players without a vertical foregrip and compensator on their primary because they just flat out make it better.

Plenty of games have well balanced and varied arsenals without modifications that directly affect the stats of the weapon. Heck, I remember back in the days of Battlefield Bad Company 2, weapon modification was literally just being able to put either a 1x or 4x optic on your primary (And even then you had to sacrifice your first specialization slot, so most people used iron sights).

@Quadsword There's not really many other wars to change the fore-grip, because like you said, it's a direct enhancement to your performance. So if players take it regardless, the cost of the grip decides how many other items you can grab in your load-out, which in itself is a sacrifice. The only thing they can change to the fore-grip specifically is effectiveness or cost (obviously).

  • If effectiveness stays the same but the cost is reduced (2), then players will just always take it like you said (no brainer choice, 50% less recoil for 2 points, op)
  • If effectiveness stays the same but the cost is increased (4), then it becomes another instance of AP rounds in which it takes up a few points that could of been spent elsewhere, limiting your load-out choices, but it's paramount to your performance in gun fights in current state of the game (just like how picking AP was paramount to your performance)
  • If effectiveness is reduced to the point where the difference between recoil with/with-out the grip is only ~15% but the cost stays the same (3), then it's more of a harder choice because the bonus is small
  • If effectiveness is reduced to the point where the difference between recoil with/with-out the grip is only ~15% and the cost is reduced (2), then you'll most likely still take it
  • If effectiveness is reduced to the point where the difference between recoil with/with-out the grip is only ~15% and the cost is increased (4), then you'll most likely not take it. (4 points is two explosive grenades or an upgrade from light carrier/armor to their respective heavier option... or settle for 15% recoil bonus, it's getting a lot harder to choose now and that's what it should be about)

Maybe even just give players less supply points to use, or give supply points to teams over the course of the game just like how it was for some game modes in Insurgency. So you'd start off with less but over the duration of the game, you'll eventually reach the supply amount we currently have right now.

Once you get players to finally start giving up the fore-grip, then you're in the sweet spot and numbers could be further tweaked. Another in-direct way is to perhaps add some other 'Under-rail' attachment to compete with the fore-grip that isn't recoil related.

Let's be honest, if you're always taking a fore-grip and compensator then you're really not being a team player because you could of used those points on extra smokes, heavy carrier for even 3 smokes or even 3 incendiary grenades like I do sometimes, to deny entry points on the right objectives for minutes.

The main reason we take the fore-grip is because right now it's all about having a laser beam in full auto because the game-play features/elements/mechanics/code allows the player to do so, and it works wonders. So if they change these features/elements/mechanics/code that end up not favoring the fore-grip choice all that much, then that in itself will make it not a 100% pickup in your load-out.

Like if the devs made muzzle flashes stand out more and 'pop' out even in daylight, then naturally the flash hider will be a better choice. This can go the other way too, like if TTK was lowered so that 5.56 weapons one shot, then naturally 7.62 weapons (especially with lower RoF's and mag sizes) will become less favorable (IT'S AN EXAMPLE, DON'T GET TRIGGERED). See where I'm going with this?

I also think BF:BC2 had a great weapon mod system, but that was a simpler time and the choices were simple themselves with little to no overlap in the choices. It's not the same modification model and it's an arcade shooter.

last edited by Jarple

The side side movent is annoying, in INS2 it moved left-right just a little tiny bit and would generally move up to the right because you player was right-handed. INS2 made it feel that you were more in control of your gun and was more immersive, now it feels weird.

When I first started playing ss I always used compensator and foregrip. Nowadays I don't and my stats didn't get worse. Actually the points spent on utility instead are way more worth it.

After reading the mp7 thread I started playing it... Never played it before. That weapon is nuts. Dunno why people bash it. Use it accordingly and it's a very good weapon. I only use it with a holo, that's it. No compensator, foregrip or whatever. It's short af and extremely deadly. Ofc trying to spray down people long range won't get you far. Although I have to say that the recoil is very low, even while standing.

@quadsword said in The biggest issue for me so far:

(Besides the AI)

accurate
@quadsword said in The biggest issue for me so far:

The way recoil currently works. I don't like it. I don't like how weapons either a) have strictly vertical recoil with next to no side to side kick or b) have completely random side to side recoil that makes it borderline unusable without a compensator (RIP in pepperonis MP7).

I don't understand the appeal of the Uzi because of this. It actually has worse recoil than the AKS-74u, and an Uzi /w an Ext Mag costs the same as a standard AKS-74u, so what's the point?

@quadsword said in The biggest issue for me so far:

Additionally, there's too much disparity with the amount of recoil felt between crouching and standing. After some testing in local play, I've found that crouching is basically like getting a free foregrip on your weapon with how much it mitigates kick. Combine that with the recoil reduction of an actual foregrip and your gun basically becomes a laser.

Oh nononono

From what I've tested, it's not just a free Foregrip. In fact, crouching and firing with a weapon with no attachments results in about 30% less recoil than using a Foregrip and Compensator and firing while standing. Makes both attachments redundant for most weapons.

@quadsword said in The biggest issue for me so far:

Solutions:

  • Make it so that kind of recoil reduction can only be had while prone.
  • Nerf crouch recoil reduction to maybe 1/5 of what it is now.
  • All weapons should have predictable side to side recoil with no or at least very very little randomness.

-> I'm down for prone recoil reduction, but don't go Escape From Tarkov levels of overboard on that.

-> Crouching should only give you reduced sway IMO. Even if it only provides a 20% recoil reduction everyone's gonna take advantage of it. 20% is a big difference after repeated shots.

-> IMO most weapons shouldn't have much Horizontal recoil at all. It can be used very slightly to nerf the long-range effectiveness of some guns (like the MP7) but overall it just feels like a RNG mechanic this game really doesn't need.

@marksmanmax Well, I didn't test very thoroughly, just did some quick play testing in local play to get a feel for it.

Thing is, though, if only a few guns actually have horizontal recoil, that makes the compensator seem incredibly situational, not to mention something of a newb trap if someone slaps it on their gun without realizing it isn't actually helping them.

@Benz It's a fine weapon to use, it just seems unnecessarily restrictive with how costly the extended magazine is, especially when you can have a Mk18 for the same cost that kills in fewer shots, is easier to control at range, and has 50% more ammo in its magazine by default.

@quadsword said in The biggest issue for me so far:

@marksmanmax Well, I didn't test very thoroughly, just did some quick play testing in local play to get a feel for it.

Thing is, though, if only a few guns actually have horizontal recoil, that makes the compensator seem incredibly situational, not to mention something of a newb trap if someone slaps it on their gun without realizing it isn't actually helping them.
Yeah, crouching and firing is just fucking broken. It's gotta get nerfed hard.

You're goddamn right. The Compensator is very situational. It's only helpful for LMGs, SMGs, and maybe a few pistols. Other than that, you're better off spending that three supply somewhere else.

@Benz It's a fine weapon to use, it just seems unnecessarily restrictive with how costly the extended magazine is, especially when you can have a Mk18 for the same cost that kills in fewer shots, is easier to control at range, and has 50% more ammo in its magazine by default.

Yeah. The MP7, when modded, is basically a weaker, faster-firing Mk 18. Would be cool to use if it costed four supply, but if you practically have to spend ten, I'd rather just mod a different gun.

Also, I'd rather use a shotgun because again it's just so strong with how garbage Heavy Armor is.

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