Gameplay in versus feels kind of senseless

It's difficult to discribe for me, but the gameplay itself is kind of meaningless.
The maps are pretty big and 12 to 16 players in one team is pretty much as well.
It just feels like not very competitve. Like you literally can get shot from every possible angle of the map and you don't know how many enemies are alive or when they respawn (at least in some gamemodes).
There are just so many situations where i feel i could not have done anything better to avoid dying.
Does anybody feel the same?

@benny Lol its just called playing insurgency. However on some maps it is pretty retardedly unbalanced thus making life feel worthless lol

Yeah, I miss the long term motivation a little bit. At least in versus.
I got to admit that I never really played competitive.

@Benny Welcome to 32 player push.

I argue that there is a sense of what is going on, but there is no teamwork most of the time, which I try to encourage in game by talking a lot. They really need to find a way to enforce teamwork.

I assume we are talking about push

@john-edgell said in Gameplay in versus feels kind of senseless:

I argue that there is a sense of what is going on, but there is no teamwork most of the time, which I try to encourage in game by talking a lot. They really need to find a way to enforce teamwork.

This. On some occasions when the teamwork happens, it's just.... ahhhhh.

Yeah teams need a LOT more cohesion to make PVP enjoyable for me. The lack of coordination makes it a random death festival, and works against any sort of tactical gameplay.

All that is being discussed above is why I refuse to play pvp in insurgency without a regular squad to mold and play with. Its just so effing pointless. Without a regular grp of players its just 32 rambos running and gunning.

last edited by Max80

@jballou
This changes over time when players get more experienced. In Ins2 on any random skirmish16v16 you get games with a good flow because teams cooperate in a good way or really bad ones. Its luck when casually joining games. If you really want it to be a coordinated team you have to make an effort yourself - Talk with people, add them on steam, find players who shares your ideas. Build strong teams with friends.

SYSTEM TO MAKE TEAMS BETTER:
Of course we would need a system built around that to make it work. For example a lobby like in Payday 2, where you can gather friends, then when lobby is full your team is ready. After that your lobby gets paired with another full lobby. This way it will be organized, but divide players between those who are organized and make friends and those who only play random games, but this could be solved by having a function where you can choose to invite randoms to your lobby (same as Payday) to get a full lobby even if you don't know the other players and you can chat in the lobby to find out if people have the same idea about strategy. Maybe have a "leader" slot being put of for votes, and acting as a player who commands the team. When you get many upvotes you get a higher rank (in that specific persons ranking system to avoid abuse, avoid friends ranking each other up) and we can have ranked team leaders=) Seems cool?

last edited by Pacalis

Dedicated servers will help alot. Then you can play with and against the same ppl over time. And also build a community.
Mapknowledge plays a huge deal in sandstorm, just play it, try different loadouts, tactics and routes to the objective -from both sides.

Also, on the other hand -A bigger focus on how to play the objective from both developers and connected youtubers would help alot. For example explain why firefight is not won by camping as last man standing, and that firefight is not TDM.

This is a big problem with the current map design. Too many open spaces, turning the game into a sniper-fest where people just sit in bushes or on rocks getting easy kills on the few people who actually try to push and play the objective. In Insurgency, the good maps have a limited number of angles you can get shot from at any one time.

@cyoce

When Sandstorm gets more time on its feet people will hopefully adapt to a playstyle more suited for larger maps. Look at a game like Rising Storm 2 Vietnam, large maps with low TTK - Works quite good. I still agree that its is a current problem, I preferred the smaller maps with less angles from Ins2 myself, but at the same time all this new angles is an interesting challenge. Smokes, prefires and reconnaissance (recon work) goes a long way in this regard.

Yep, it's just what you're used to. Open maps and more angles to cover means you can't run with blinders on like you ran in INS2, you really have to look around.

@pacalis How does recon work? Do you just mean scanning the whole map with a scope? That's what makes the gameplay slow. And prefires? Are you joking? How am I supposed to prefire someone across the map whose location I don't know?

@cyoce

TACTICS 2:
Well, by recon work I am mostly thinking about situational awareness and not running with blinders like @jensiii said, recon is basically gathering information about the enemy, both by sound, vision, communication with team. It is also about learning how enemies play, first round in competitive you would "feel out" the enemy team in the first round, which obj do they push, how fast do they hit obj, how good is their tactic - Like trying to understand how they think so you can counter/predict their moves. Sniper on team could use scope and give feedback to rest of team, sure. Game will be slower when you must check everywhere, yes, still can be fun.

Prefire is dependent on situation, so in smaller spaces it is of most use, not across map, that would be difficult most often, but can be done if you have played both sides before on the map. Then you look at timer and know when enemies will squeeze through choke points. Prefire this so enemy think you know where they are. They will start moving slower sometimes, so it is easier for you to push up on objective. Same with prefrag (throw grenade in spot when enemy has high chance of moving through an area by predicting rush from spawn, or reacting on you touching an obj). In Insurgency you could get many kills with that. Prefire is often most useful when moving up to objecitve for example just shot many shots at all windows so enemy does not dare to peek. Prefire typical camping spots - and yes sometimes across map if you know sniper is somewhere there. Your team will see your shots landing in that area and be more aware (this is very situational dependant). When you enter obj and you know left and right of door is hard to peek without being killed by possible enemy in corner, you quickly prefire corner by peek+ fire before your brain can register if enemy is there, then you move around and prefire some more from different angle. Also you can prefire through thin walls so enemy behind wall will make a noice if he is there.

Hope this made sense=)

If you are gonna prefire depends on the situation right, prefire top or bottom of stairs, windows, good sniper spots, bushes - Whatever feels useful. Try playing a game where you use prefire about a magazines worth in a couple of games and check it out for yourself. It was easier in Insurgency because I know those maps very well, but It works well on larger maps as well. It is kind of a quick way to make sure you will not be camped from a spot that seems high risk or dangerous. It can also be used with suppressive fire with MG.

Downside with prefire is it eats ammo and makes noice.

recon from wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconnaissance

From wiki:
When referring to reconnaissance, a commander's full intention is to have a vivid picture of his battlespace. The commander organizes the reconnaissance platoon based on:

mission,
enemy,
terrain,
troops and support available,
time available, and
civil considerations.
Reconnaissance-by-fire
Reconnaissance by fire (or speculative fire) is the act of firing at likely enemy positions, in order to cause the enemy force to reveal their location by moving or by returning fire

Some tactics are useful from real warfare. Another thing I just thought about that military do in real situations that I see most players not think about is when they snipe from a window.
Don't stay close to window but as far in the room as possible, this narrows the angle you can be counter-fired from.

Also since it is a game it is useful to tell team where you got killed from so they can make a trade kill, or you can prefire same place you got killed from after you respawn.

last edited by Pacalis

Maybe the upcoming update on November 8th will do some balancing changes - I'm excited about that.
However, I guess "versus" might stay the more casual game experience in sandstorm. Especially because of the larger player count, which, as you guys said, makes the gameplay chaotic and not very tactical.
Testing "competitive" with good teammates could be very cool.
Does anybody have some experience in sandstorm competitive?

last edited by Benny

No plans for the rpk? 😞

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