New VS Old.

So I just played Grizzly Creek on casual, going to probably one of the easier lumber mills in the game. As such I wanted to see how a old semi would fare against the new ones so I picked a C-256. My other vehicle was a K-700, I originally planned on role-playing, using the Skidder to find logs and the K-700 to load them, but changed my mind after starting the map and I just reversed my trucks/trailers into the Log Station to load them the lazy way. As such I had 4 trucks, my C-256, 2 Chevy Bison's (which the map spawned) and a Western Star (again the map spawned).

So, we're focusing on the C-256 VS Bison here. Lets have a look at the trucks capabilities and my setup I'm using.

C-256

  • No 6X6.
  • Diff Lock (manual on/off)
  • Street Tires.
  • Spare Tires (repair points)
  • Long Log Trailer.

Chevy Bison

  • No 6X6.
  • Diff Lock (always on)
  • Street Tires.
  • No Repair Points.
  • Long Log Trailer.

So on paper both these vehicles look pretty even, repair point has no bearing on this comparison. Both are 2WD, diff lock only, with street tires. You'd think they'd be at least somewhat comparable in what they are capable of. Well.... not quite.

First lets see how both trucks fare trying to get out of one of the easiest log stations to access in the game.

Youtube Video

Now lets see how they both do climbing a mostly paved hill.

Youtube Video

Honestly this comparison is just sad, these new trucks are laughably bad even compared to some of the worse of the old trucks. I mean hell the bloody Bison got stuck pavement, with a load on no less.

fyi: For those curious my other topic is on the American Wilds dlc in general, here I wanted to focus squarely on just the trucks.

Thx for videos!
As i see you dont always full throttle, good, but why dont you use low low, or low low low gears? Its much easier to get out of the mud on it.
Maybe devs made new road truck like it becouse default trucks were too monstrous? Check youtube vids, i posted the list nearby. Trucks are stuck here and there, you just cant be in god mode like we all ARE with 6×6 and c256 on roads like we have in mudrunner.

@stazco said in New VS Old.:

Thx for videos!
As i see you dont always full throttle, good, but why dont you use low low, or low low low gears? Its much easier to get out of the mud on it.
Maybe devs made new road truck like it becouse default trucks were too monstrous? Check youtube vids, i posted the list nearby. Trucks are stuck here and there, you just cant be in god mode like we all ARE with 6×6 and c256 on roads like we have in mudrunner.

Sometimes I do use the super low gears, I just feel like I can do at least a reasonable job throttling it. Plus I wanted the freedom to try and get a little bit of forward momentum on the go. It also helps for comparison sake to drive both trucks in the same manner.

But yes, occasionally when I feel I'm in a tough situation I will use super low gears. I may treat it as a "last resort" type of thing, but there are times I use them.

When I first started the map I was thinking of using the C-65115 from the Ridge DLC map as those trucks are 2WD. As it turns out we can't pick those trucks because.... reasons, I guess. We can pick a C-65115, but only the 6X6 model. So looking around I found the C-256. From what I can tell, the C-256 is a 2WD, street version of the C-255. The C-255 is one of the top few trucks in the game, so in all fairness the C-256 could be quite capable in regards of 2WD trucks. That said it is the best thing I could pick to compare the new trucks to.

And sure it's one thing to see empty trucks get suck this easily. When a truck is empty all the weight is at the front and the back wheel has very little grip. But fully loaded trucks?

Honestly these new trucks are operating as a truck would in snow and ice, they don't feel like they are on dry pavement/dirt. That's how I feel anyway. Even if we kinda met halfway between the Bison and the C-256 I feel it'd be more realistic.

@stazco said in New VS Old.:

Vids from this guy is perfect:

Youtube Video

I'm subscribed to that guy. lol

That said the Western Star is a alright truck, not amazing but it'll by (probably due to being 6X6). It's more vehicles like the Bison and LTL9000 that are the issue here.

@Stazco did u not know about his channel?

@SD1ONE ur fans here gathered together 😃

last edited by zamal
Community Moderator - Spintires

This is how Vehicle presentation should look like...

The Western Star is sort of a hybrid truck (for on-road and off-road) whereas the C-255 is really meant for off-road, so the results are predictable. Now equip the WS with some serious off-road wheels and it could be a different story:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1548968620

That's one of the mods I have (with some of my own tweaks added). I do feel this DLC makes the US trucks look kind of weak. I mean other than the Skidder and Forwarder, none of them are off-road specialists. But then again it probably comes down to a different logging style (US has more roads, Russia has a lot of muddy wilderness).

As to the C-256 vs. Bison comparison, I'll have to take a look when I get home and do some tests on the Proving Ground. This thread got me curious about it. But with my somewhat heavier-than-stock Bison I didn't feel it was any worse than the C-256 and I remember getting stuck with the C-256 as well, but I haven't tried to do a head-to-head comparison.

last edited by Unster

That would be neat to see.

@justinlynch3
OK, I just did a quick test in Proving Ground, C-256 vs. Bison, no load, diff lock on, on that muddy slope right behind the starting lot. I pretty much see what you saw, i.e. the 256 is easier to get up the hill. BUT, if I feather the throttle on the Bison it can do it too. The key is to just barely spin the wheels if it gets stuck. Maximize that static friction.

Now this is with my modded Bison, 8000 mass and 150K torque. The default is 6000 mass and 160K torque which I'm sure would spin even more. The 256 has 12000 mass and 150K torque and I'm pretty sure it's the mass that gives it better traction. The tires on both have the same friction settings.

@unster in RL KRAZ 256 curb weight is 12 000 kg, for bizon i couldn't find curb w., only weight with cargo and people (max gvwr)- 22 500 kg. 😠
Horse power - 240 kraz, 400 ave for bizon.

@stazco
So the mass units in MR are kg? I thought they were just some arbitrary game units. I find it strange that the 256 would weigh twice as much as the Bison. They're about the same size. That's one reason I increased the Bison's weight.

@unster maybe, but we know that all game specs are not directly connected with rl specs and units.
But still it would be interesting to have such table, at least to compare vehicles IN game.
there were some table, but its gone (

last edited by Stazco

@stazco
I agree. The torque of the D-538 comes to mind. It seems very wrong in this game. But I'm starting to believe that the weights are in kg and the devs got them right (as compared to RL). I'll have to revisit this when I get home and make some more modifications. If the weights are correct that means some of the mods I have are overweight. I couldn't find the curb weight of the Bison either, but it is supposedly lightweight (for a semi) because it uses aluminum and carbon fiber for a lot of components. The Russians apparently didn't care much about the weight.

@unster who knows...bizon has alu cab, but kraz has wooden cab...

@stazco And I'm pretty sure wood weighs more than aluminum. But I'm still not sure I want to believe that the 256 weighs twice as much as a Bison. That's a big difference. But who knows, maybe it's true.

@unster said in New VS Old.:

@stazco
So the mass units in MR are kg? I thought they were just some arbitrary game units. I find it strange that the 256 would weigh twice as much as the Bison. They're about the same size. That's one reason I increased the Bison's weight.

I agree. I mean sure I can see the 256 being heavier. It's a older truck and likely built with heavier materials and metals in general then the Bison. But twice as heavy? That seems kinda a stretch there.

So I decided to test out all 3 of the new non-all-wheel drive trucks, I reset the map each time only using scout vehicles for rescuing if need. I did it all on casual just for ease of loading the trucks, plus not having to worry about diff-locks overheating. So the 3 teams that ran this Logmore hill climb was

(A) Team Chevy

  • Blazer
  • Bison

(B) Team Ford

  • F-150
  • LTL9000

(C) Team Humliner

  • Hummer
    -Freightliner

Results;

To no surprise team Chevy did the worst. I had no better luck the Bison today then I had the last time I tried this hill. The Bison backed into the parking lot fine, then it all went downhill. Suck in the log station, stuck leaving the driveway, and stuck climbing the hill. With the help of the Blazer the Bison eventually did crest the hill, but hell man was it a ordeal. The Bison must be the worst new truck of the bunch by far.

Bringing up the middle was team Humliner. The Freightliner reversed into the log station fine and got out by itself without to much issue, I just needed to get a little forward momentum going and she was fine. However like the Bison the Freightline didn't quite make the hill climb and needed assistance. But unlike the Blazer which struggled towing the Bison, once I hooked on the Hummer the Freightliner finished the hill without issue.

The stars of this however was Team Ford. I had the F-150 on had, but I never needed to it. The LTL9000 got in and out of the log station, and up the hill all by itself with no help needed. Even though the Freightliner had a crane attached which I assume added a little extra weight, the Ford still beat it hands down.

Overall I wouldn't say any of these trucks feel as good up the Paved Muddy Hill as the C-256, she's still the king of 2WD off roading. But if I had to choose between the new trucks (excluding the Western Star), then I'm going with the Ford.

I'd say if you, avoid the Bison. Anything is better then that truck.

Here is the runs I did, as I said map was reset each time.

Team Chevy
Youtube Video

Team Humliner
Youtube Video

Team Ford
Youtube Video

@justinlynch3
The results are not surprising (based on what you said, I may check out the videos later). The weights of the semi trucks are exactly in that order, i.e. Bison, FL, Ford. With a vehicle by itself, the overall weight doesn't really make a difference when it comes to traction, but it does come into play when towing stuff. Lighter vehicles will always have a harder time towing heavy loads, even if they're powerful.

I spent considerable time yesterday reworking the weights on a lot of vehicles. This time I also realized that if the weight is significantly changed you need to adjust the suspension strength, otherwise the ride height will change. I'm closer to the stock settings now, but I still have my Bison and FL 1000 kg heavier than stock (still lighter than the stock LTL). I find at the stock weight they just don't seem to behave right when climbing hills - too light and too slippery. Same goes for the stock Hummer and F150. With those I have the torque reduced somewhat but kept the stock weights.

It's the mods in the workshop, especially lighter vehicles that are often overweight and overpowered. I have those now set to realistic values and the towing behavior is now much more realistic.

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