Co-Op and General Game Feedback

I've logged 30 hours over the past two weeks and here are a few things that stuck out to me the most (that I don't see posted here too often)

  1. AI needs to be able to use windows. The maps seem designed with them and other obstacles in mind, but the AI pathing is incredibly predictable and boring. Having AI enemies vaulting boxes or flanking through windows would make the game a lot more fun. In general giving them more pathing options around objectives would be great.

  2. AI need to use grenades and other non-primary weapons more often. I'm not really sure how AI choose what weapons to use (primary vs. secondary vs. rpg/grenade) but I rarely see them using anything but their rifle. If the enemy AI used more smokes and incendiaries it would really change things up. I also really love the chemical mortars and suicide bombers and would like to see more of that if possible.

  3. Why is there so much emphasis on cosmetics right now, and why do they cost so much? I'm barely able to afford anything at 30 hours played. I literally don't care that tattoos are coming in an upcoming patch.

  4. Co-Op vs. AI needs to have it's player cap reduced or the amount of AI scaled. A full server is ridiculously easy.

  5. Where are all of the maps? I've been told by other players you're holding back until release, but why? Don't you want us to test them? I really hope there's a lot of variety when the game is released 'cause I'm pretty sick of the current rotation.

  6. More player controls on the server. Kick, mute, stuff like that would go a long way.

Welcome to Insurgency Sandstorm HellboP 😉
You made good points there. A few of them were adressed earlier, but it´s always good to have new topics to remind the developers of things that can be fixed or made better.

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

This is great feedback.

I couldn't agree more on the full server coop being way too easy. I strongly believe that coop games should be limited to 5 players in order to keep tension and things interesting while reinforcing teamplay.

@grumf said in Co-Op and General Game Feedback:
I strongly believe that coop games should be limited to 5 players in order to keep tension and things interesting while reinforcing teamplay.

Sorry grumpf i totaly disagree here.
We ( FPS - Coop players ) have really been waiting a veeeery long time to get a modern military FPS game that supports up to 8 players in Coop mode.
The last game i remember which offered that was GRAW ( Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter - released in 2006) which offered 8 players standard ( 12 Players modded )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy's_Ghost_Recon_Advanced_Warfighter

Insurgency 2 ( 2014) offered this 8 Player Coop again and gained a huge fanbase.
Over 6 million copys of this game have been sold worlwide. And believe me not because of PVP but because of COOP games !
On modded servers ( Bot Massacre # 1 - 3 ) up to 18 players ( former 12 players- which i personally liked more ) can play coop right at this moment.
The number of the spawning bots has been adjusted to have a lot firefights for each and everyone on the server.
The modding community did an awsome job adding classes like Medic , VIP and Engineer with different abilities to support the players who are fighting against several huge bot waves.

Sandstorm as his successor should definitely keep the 8 player standard coop team BUT instead raise the number of bots that are spawning and also add some more spawn points ( random points to keep the tension high).
The spawns possibly should NOT be on the backside of the team, because we clear the buildings while we are advancing.
Spawning on backside would be highly unrealistic and killing the immersion.

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

@gsg_9_lightning

I know that, but the thing is... 8 players are way too much compared to what AI offers in term of challenge. Same problem in Ins2. When 8 players have to play together, at least 2-3 of them aren't that useful, and some places tend to get overcrowded. You often can't have a clear line of sight because of how many teammates are in front of you, and if you don't have anyone in front of you, it then means you probably block someone else's line of sight.

Maps are bigger in Sandstorm, but that problem still occurs from time to time. That doesn't even change the fact that 4-5 players can do the exact same job as 8, perhaps even better. I know it's cool to have an 8 players coop mode, but if it means having somewhat of a mess with everyone running around, some far ahead, some far behind that won't see any action during the entire game, I just think it's not worth it and that it isn't something we should hang on to.

Increasing the number of bots could help to a certain degree, but I found that it quickly can turn into an unrealistic and highly immersion breaking leadfest. Fighting billions of AI with a squad of 8 (which makes it a rather big squad already) is just too Call of Duty-esque for me.

last edited by Grumf

The coming patch release will probably give you all what you want. The community servers, if like the previous INS, will allow customization of player & BOT count. I know I will be adding a server with less player numbers & more bots if possible 🙂

@grumpf
Well all i can say is that your theory is wrong that 4-5 can do the job better than 8 could do.
They cannot be more efficient at least if you play with realistic tactics.

Teammates may stand in firelines of others but that doesn´t mean that those in the back don´t have an important role.

Whenever you have to cover a specific area and you fire some rounds over there and finally your magazine is almost empty you have to reload.
In that situation the guy in the back should be aiming in the same direction as you did before and begin firing or at least covering that area after you go in crouch or prone position and start reloading.
If you play fair you don´t just stand up and get in his fireline again, but instead you should move slowly aside or even behind him to cover him in the case his magazine gets empty too.
If two players practice this way of covering each other, none of them will get shot while reloading ( which happens realy often in Insurgency games )
You can easily advance from cover to cover with that tactics and reach the objective as a team without getting shot down.

With this tactics you have four fireteams which provide cover in several directions. It´s way more efficient and safer for any teammate in such a situation.

But ... Real life tactics seem to be boring for many players who play offensive and selfish and want as many kills as possible and points for taking the
objective for themselves ending up in a run and gun tactics and leaving teammates behind.

Happens to me regularly that i am still pinned down close to the previous mission objective, having an intense firefight with bots while others from my
adorable teammates rushed and already take the next objective.
Youtube Video – [00:00..]

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

@gsg_9_lightning

More efficient, in that nobody has to walk on other people and gather in a small building. I found out while playing that action and movements were way smoother than when playing with 7 other players. Everyone gets to have kills, everyone is useful and valuable... I just felt it was a deeply more pleasant experience than in a full server. Maybe that's just me, but... Obviously, it's not. OP feels the same, and at least one additional person in the forum does too, even though I can't remember in what thread I saw that.

@Grumf
Your experience is absolutely correct and comprehensibly because people don´t care for others ( if they don´t know each other ).
In cases where i notice that people are playing just selfish i also adapt my playstyle and move more like a rusher doing flanking manouvers on my own,
risking to get shot any time. But that´s not the standard.

You will experience a better gameplay with "friends" when communication is good and everyone cares for his teammates.
I enjoyed such matches earlier in Insurgency2 with my Clanmates which i personaly find very satisfying.
Keeping the deaths low for any teammate ( in best cases zero for all teammates ) is a sign of excellent teamwork and professionalism.
You will not find often players these days with such a passion, professionalism and skill.

I am very sure that there will be servers with less maximum players coming shortly after the next patch on 8th November.
So whoever wants to play there will be satisfied.

But generally reducing the maximum number of players to just 5 would be a big mistake !

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

@gsg_9_lightning

Well, yeah, of course. When you have 7 friends to play with it can only be great. I don't have 7 friends to play with, just like most people. I at best have 1-2 friends to play with.

I think some servers should have a smaller amount of players. 8 for big groups, 5 for randoms. I've started playing offline almost exclusively because of how chaotic coop feels like. That's a shame, because when I come accross a server that isn't full (3-6 players), the game really changes for the better imo. Unlike full servers that give me the impression of being in a crowd of frantic people in front of an electronics shop on black friday.

last edited by Grumf

@sawcoach said in Co-Op and General Game Feedback:

The coming patch release will probably give you all what you want. The community servers, if like the previous INS, will allow customization of player & BOT count. I know I will be adding a server with less player numbers & more bots if possible 🙂

Turns out you were right - I'm absolutely loving the latest patch! Thanks for the discussion guys!

@hellbop said in Co-Op and General Game Feedback:

AI need to use grenades and other non-primary weapons more often. I'm not really sure how AI choose what weapons to use (primary vs. secondary vs. rpg/grenade) but I rarely see them using anything but their rifle. If the enemy AI used more smokes and incendiaries it would really change things up. I also really love the chemical mortars and suicide bombers and would like to see more of that if possible.

Why is there so much emphasis on cosmetics right now, and why do they cost so much? I'm barely able to afford anything at 30 hours played. I literally don't care that tattoos are coming in an upcoming patch.

Co-Op vs. AI needs to have it's player cap reduced or the amount of AI scaled. A full server is ridiculously easy.

As of the newest patch, that's pretty much all been implemented / fixed!

AI needs to be able to use windows. The maps seem designed with them and other obstacles in mind, but the AI pathing is incredibly predictable and boring. Having AI enemies vaulting boxes or flanking through windows would make the game a lot more fun. In general giving them more pathing options around objectives would be great.

AI can vault obstacles, but I'm not actually sure if I've seen AI vault windows. Like, ever.

Where are all of the maps? I've been told by other players you're holding back until release, but why? Don't you want us to test them? I really hope there's a lot of variety when the game is released 'cause I'm pretty sick of the current rotation.

Two maps were taken out of rotation and replaced with Refinery. Precinct should come soon as well, once they fix the major bugs with the map.

As for why some maps get held back, it's so that testing can be more focused on certain maps at a time. Makes bugs and shite easier to squash when the playerbase is focused on just a select few maps.

last edited by MarksmanMax

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