Map design feedback: Coop checkpoint

When the first Standalone version of Insurgency came out, I absolutely fell in love with the coop mode. Something about the linear (albeit, slightly open) routes of the maps funneled players together and subtly encouraged teamwork, moving cover to cover and leapfrogging. Even with a team of random players on a random server people seemed to know how to work together and it made for some incredibly fun times.

Overall the map design of INS:S feels way different than the first standalone game. In the coop modes, maps feel way more open and like you can get hit from any side-- understandably this is more realistic, but as compared to the first game:

-It feels like I have less awareness of my teammates at all times, which deeply hampers any kind of spontaneous teamplay

-In every coop map, there's little to no strategic positions to hold where I can support my teammates by providing overwatch with an MG or sniper rifle

-Maps are way less linear now, and while I'm all for open map designs, it means that my team of random players tends to split up and charge onto the objective on their own. This would be totally fine if each "route" to the next objective provided some kind of opportunity to cover one another but for the most part, coop feels like a solo mission where I don't shoot a certain amount of people

-Due to the more claustraphobic nature of the map design, holding a position during a counter attack feels more like sitting inside the corner of a room and shooting any bot that happens to come inside of it (compare to point C of Burhiz of the first standalone Insurgency game, where everyone on your team would aim out of windows to cover 4 potential routes to the objective you have to hold)

Overall I understand that INS:S may be going for more realism but so far the open map design doesn't feel like it encourages teamplay like the original standalone game did, nor does it really provide any opportunities to do so

Interesting feedback. I too would like to see more strategeic positions to provide covering fire either with a sniper rifle or with a machine gun. Options are, for the moment that is, quite limited.

Especially for snipers, to the point that finding a good spot takes too much time and effort, and exploiting the full potential of long range scopes (7x) is often impossible. In most cases, a sniper won't have a position that makes it comfortable to use such a scope, and more often than not a 4x does the trick quite well.

I agree with everything said above, but especially the point about lookout positions. I fell playing an MG is at least manageable, but because of the very cqc heavy maps, I barely get to support my team efectively. The only repeatedly fun passage for sniping atm is the start of hideout imo, everywhere else you are just busy finding a good position and then getting no targets.

@grumf said in Map design feedback: Coop checkpoint:

In most cases, a sniper won't have a position that makes it comfortable to use such a scope, and more often than not a 4x does the trick quite well.

As someone who (I hope obviously lol) plays Marksman a lot in Coop at least, 7x scopes are a bit redundant, for sure. In fact, many times a 2x scope gets the job done (although I will say that the M16A2 3x A2 scope is god-tier). I usually end up running a 4x scope on most Marksman weapons, and a 7x scope on the M24 simply because no other scope really looks that good on that gun.

After the Nov. 8th patch, I wasn't too fond of the new high-quality scope models, although I'm getting used to them now.

One more thing, though; I know that back in the CTA days I essentially scrapped my ability to aim 7x scopes very well in favor of 4x scopes (since adjusting the sens. for 7x scopes made 4x scopes feel too slow and vice versa). I'm more-or-less adjusted to the sensitivity now, though.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@thewonderlemon

Hello,

100/100 agree with you.
If you attack a building with a squad of 4 people (a total of 5 men) that thing would still be unsecured and on lock down because the building has 6-7 doors and 8 windows which the enemy can vault over.
In every scenario running down an alley, securing a building , attacking an objective there are at least 11-12 spots where you can get shot from and as you correctly put it that is realistic, but in a game...I don't know its kind of fustrating for me.Do I have to learn 20-25 spots just for that one alley ?

I'm waiting for the game toi launch, 5-6 months to pass so that a passionate modder can bring back district,market,sinjar, all small maps yes, but they have what you were describing.A way to cover teammates, feel in control and to secure an obj.
If you may excuse the language, a player once said ingame that, and I'm quoting : "These maps feel like HUGE f****** mazes" :). I knew immediatly what he ment.

The situation from district in the small back alley that leads to B. You know there is a dumpster on the right, a blown out car on the left and way in the back another dumpster where snipers usually are. I say thats enough, 3 spots where you cand get shot from and from there may the best player win.
I feel like I'm playing lotto 6/49, roullete, slots machines in Vegas 🙂 its all luck, will you look at the correct door, blown out wall or window ?

If they choose to maintain these style of maps well... I guess I'll have to learn all of that stuff along with all the other players 🙂

Reggarding performance i still have to keep everything on LOW setting.
I7-6700k @4.00 Ghz / GTX 1080 8GB ram (goes around 50-60 degrees C ingame, on all LOW)latest driver / 16Gb ram @2133 Mhz / SSD / win 10

Thank you

@tiberiu Oh, nevermind. I read T° as if it was your fps. My bad ^^'

last edited by Grumf

This is all so true.

I think an easy but perhaps an unpopular solution would be to increase close proximity AI accuracy. Even after the previous update, AI accuracy is at an all time inconsistent value. We've all been there when you step out from cover to be taken out by a single shot from god know's where and that's fine! maybe it was a sniper. How many of us have seen a player step through a doorway or step around a corner to be shot at by several AI at close proximity only to come out untouched!

This is a huge reason for people running and gunning, kicking down doors and ramboing in. The AI are more often than not, useless at close proximity even when they have the drop on you. If the AI's accuracy was increased to a reasonable level, I guarantee more players are going to start teaming up. I can't even use flashbangs effectively because by the time I pull the pin, a friendly player has just rushed into the room to kill everything on his own.

Players including myself are just too comfortable with running off alone towards an objective. Making the AI more accurate is a simple solution. Watch the game change, as players begin to stick together, slow down a bit, peak corners before running onto a street and breach rooms using the equipment provided in the game.

last edited by Sharpeyehodgey

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