Super Ships

Greetings All. With the advent of BFG2, and the focus of the timeframe, it isn't surprising that the Gloriana class would show up. With the presence of Macragge's honor, other factions will need similar ships if there is to be any pretense of balance (especially after BFG1). So I open this thread looking for suggestions and ideas, as I have not read all the books and thus cannot think of anything for several factions. So without adue, the factions.

Imperial Navy: This lot will likely share the Gloriana, and I say likely as I do not recall if they can still be made

Space Marines: Gloriana, as per trailer

Adeptus Mechanicus: As to not have the same vessel 3 trimes, likely they will use an ark mechanicus, which as per Gods of Mars may get silly

Necrons: The Cairn will fit in just fine here. Its far to powerful to be compared to normal battleships (as per battle of Amarah it oneshots them) and also far too tanky. Honestly if the substitute in a heavy cruiser or the Elusive Kopesh class for the "Normal" battleship class it would be a better option.

Chaos: Looks like even more Gloriana, as there isnt really another comparable class they have, just a bunch of one offs like the Planet Killer or the Termina est, neither of which measure up in ship to ship combat anyways.

Aeldari Corsairs: Corsairs are kind of strapped, they have the Void Stalker but it wont cut it (especial now that there is an entire faction whose weapons go "Lol what holofields" and are faster than them, if less maneuverable). They will have to make something up here.

Aeldari Craftworld: Same problem with the corsairs above. Best i can think of is that they use a small craftworld like Lugganath, as craftworlds do vary in size and Potency.

Drukhari: These guys should be fine, as their entire navy will be in the midst of a revamp anyways as currently they have a grand total of TWO ships, which is a tad small. They likely have something or the other given the size of their raider fleets, and will need it as their holofields are ignore by one faction (shadowfields I think the variant is called) and their mimic engines are ignored by two (Tyranids and Necrons)

T'au Protector Fleet: (laughter can be heard)

T’au Merchant: (Hysterical laughter can be heard)

Orks: A space hulk should do it. Alternatively I wouldn't put it past them to make some horrifying abomination out of dead ships and squiggly bits. And then paint it red.

Tyranids: A large hive ship should do, with a normal one as a normal battleship. They can go from battleship sized, to the one in the Trailer sized (big enough that its mouth was bigger than a 15ish KM necron ship) to big enough to literally eat a moon.

Thats all I can think of at the moment. Maybe you guys can come up with something else. Thanks for reading.

@nemesor-xanxas
In case the heroic ships are literally unique, I've put them on the left, with the general class of ship in brackets.

  • Imperium: Argus/Victory (Victory-class Battleship). These are basically equal to a Gloriana-class ship. You can tell, because even the wikipedia page for the Conquerer gets the two confused. The two named above are the two surviving ships that stopped a Tyranid Hive fleet.
  • Space Marines: Maccrage's Honor (Gloriana-class). Almost assuredly the Space Marine's "hero ship". Not only a Gloriana-class ship, but also Papa Smurf's personal ship.
  • Adeptus Mechanicus: Omnissiah's Victory/Speranza (Ark Mechanicus). Those are the only two surviving unique Ark Mechanicus ships, as Cawl's one went and got itself blown up.
  • Necron: Inevitable Conqueror (Cairn-class). There's a bunch of unique surviving Cairn-class ships, so it's hard to know which one. I picked the Inevitable Conqueror for its awesome trolling factor throughout its history.
  • Chaos: Planet Killer (Unique). I mean, we even had it in the last game. And the Planet Killer is more than sufficient in ship to ship combat. Failing the Planet Killer, they also have numerous Gloriana-class ships and a few Blackstone fortresses left.
  • Aeldari Corsairs: Blackstone Fortress (Blackstone Fortress). We know these will be in the game (Given what happens to Cadia), so chances are this is their "big toy".
  • Aeldari Craftworld: Kaelor/Lugganath/Mymeara (Craftworld). I mean, come on. It's literally the name of their faction! Obviously it'll have to be one of the minor Craftworlds, because sending all of Biel-Tan against an enemy would be hilariously imbalanced.
  • Drukhari: N/A (???-class). Given that the Dark Eldar only have to ships, as you pointed out, they'll almost assuredly have to make something up. I'm curious to see what their fleet looks like in general.
  • T'au Protector Fleet: Firestar (Custodian-class). OK, I'm cheating a bit here, because the ship is supposedly mangled beyond repair, but I think it'd have to be this one if I'm right about the Tau. I think they're split in to the Farsight Enclaves and normal Tau. Firestar would have to go to the former, whereas the latter would use their mercenaries and allies a bit more.
  • T'au Merchant Fleet: N/A (Demiurg Stronghold). Again, cheating a little bit to hopefully get some diversity between the two Tau factions. Currently, I'm not aware of any unique Demiurg vessels, but let's just play make-believe and assume there's some super-squat ship out there.
  • Orks: N/A (Ork Rok). I'll be the first to admit that Orks could also be in Space Hulks or even one of the unique battleships they have. But I like the concept of the Orks ultimate ship just being a huge asteroid or small moon, with engines stuck in it and guns in every conceivable direction.
  • Tyranids: N/A (Hive Ship). There's actually quite a few unique Hive Fleet leaders this could be, but I left it blank because there's literally too many options. Could also technically be a Space Hulk.
last edited by Romeo

farsight rejoined the empire
not exactly sure why, the lore around that is a bit vague since the new lore is pure girlyman fanfic so no more then a passing mention about the tau re-merging

@Romeo
Assuming you are right about the Unique nature of the Ships, I have a couple additional suggestions.

-IoM Navy: Amphion, the Gloriana the navy fielded during the Xana Incursion

-Astartes: The Dark sovereign ( a DaoT ship the DA had during the heresy), The Flamewrought (Salamanders), The Lex Talonis (Nemesis Chapter), Fist of Iron (Iron hands), Red Tear (BA), Eternal Crusader (BT), Hrankfel (SW), and Invincible Reason (DA).

-Admech: Omnisiah's Victory

-Necrons: The Dead Hand (Kutlakh's ship), The Sun Killer (Unknown, Maynarkh but likely not Ixatotekh's or Xunbakyr's as the Phaeron or Lord Hunter of the Void would have likely been in charge at Amarah if they were present, could be Tlazolt's or just some random lord/overlord's), Anrakyr's Ship (Unknown name but he has a Cairn or two), Imotekh's new ship (Assuming the below didn't happen), Whatever Ludicrous monstrosity Thaszar likely uses, and the Undying One's Cairn. There was also that in universe rumor of a ship bigger than a spacehulk (possibly Szarekh's ship).

-Chaos: The Vengeful Spirit (BL), The Alpha and Beta (AL), The Word of Hermes (Ahriman's Ship), Termina Est (Typhus's ship, unsure how strong really less tanky than a Cairn (took severe but nonfatal damage from a Nova cannon while a Cairn had didnt even take superficial damage) but so is everything else, Photep (TS), Endurance (DG), Conqueror (Kosslax's Gloriana), The Emperor's Pride (EC), Nightfall (NL) and Iron Blood (IW).

-Aeldari Corsairs: Flame of Asuryan (Yriel's ship)

-Aeldari Craftworlds: You stated all their options, though i'm not so sure about Biel-tan as if I remember correctly it exploded

-Drukhari: Something cool but made up, vect/malys's ships?

-T'au protector fleet: I honestly cant think of anything that could stand up to most normal battleships, let alone this list of fleet killing abominations

-Tau Merchant Fleet: Why is this even a faction

-Orks: Attack Moons, Judgement of Carrion (Bludflags Hulk)

-Tyranids: Tiamet has some pretty cool stuff, maybe the living rock of old school kraken? So many choices.

I have to disagree with some of your choices though. The aeldari don't seem to have any blackstones left for one as vaul was an idiot and got them all killed trying to fight the Mag'ladroth (though that is old lore so maybe not cannon any more who knows). And blackstones are a bit above the rest here in power, just like a world engine (such as the now dead Borsis or the still alive Iori Delta Trove) would be for the Necrons. The Inevitable Conqueror got thrown into a sun, then again knowing Necrons and how they often feed off stars with their ships and flat out ignore solar flares so that may not have killed it, or maybe just made it phase out, or maybe Imotekh just grabbed it when no one was looking. I really disagree with the T'au ones though. While mayhaps there are some super Auxiliary vessels out there (maybe they could hire the rakgol?) the Firestar is an Or'es El'leath class, and is hilariously bad like most of the Kor'vatta. Its the most powerful kind of Tau ship but its basically an upgunned grand cruiser. Lorewise it would struggle with an average battleship, and we would be putting it against glorianas, craftworlds, and the fleet crushing abomination know as the Cairn class here. I mean its not as attrocious as the Gal'leath but... maybe the can have more than 1 10? Anyways thanks for the feedback, I'm not sure how many of the above are/aren't dead though.

@ashardalon
Where did you get the information from that farsight rejoined the Empire?

The Speranza is a Dark Age of Technology Superdreadnought.

It would eat the Planet Killer for breakfast and I'm not sure if that could be balanced.

It fires black holes at lightspeed.

@imperator In the case of that battle I believe it would really be a case of who fired first. But either way the black hole canon isn't a super unique type of armament in 40k. There is a type of shell for the Nova cannon that fires one as well and iirc the Termina Est survived in good enough condition to keep fighting a shot from that.

If this happens my guesses are as follows

IN: Majestic Class (Ark Imperial), Gloriana Class (Amphion), (insert some other dreadnought or super-battleship stashed away somewhere)

SM: Gloriana Class (insert chapter flagship), (insert prefered fortress monastery)

AdMech: (Insert fancy STC ship here)

Chaos: Gloriana Class (insert tratior leigion flagship), Abyss Class, Planet Killer, Terminus Est, Blackstone fortresses, (insert some other one shot large chaos ship)

Craftworld/Corsairs: Yriel's personal Dragonship, (insert fantasy ship here)

Drukari: (insert fantasy ship here)

T'au: ....

Orks: SPACE HULKZ, BIG ROCKS

Tyranids: (insert large Hive ship here)

Necrons: (Insert cheese here)

last edited by CALiGeR_Reborn

@teros not sure but i have heard it floating around
just tiny bits of info since it doesnt have any ultramarines
but from several people so im relatively confident in it

@nemesor-xanxas Indeed I had that added to the mod, but that seemed to be much smaller in case than the Speranza's gun.

@imperator No doubt about that. Also unlike that gun the sperenza's isn't going to be able to miss. What else is It armed with anyways? After review of BFG, the planet killer has lots of gun but is very slow. That's how it died the first time, it was kited to death by lunars and their torpedoes. The armegedon gun is slow to fire and must recharge too, so depending on the tankyness and guns of the sperenza it might be able to do the same thing. I don't have gods of mars and lexicanum is unhelpful... do you have any info on its speed/armor/armament?

To be honest, it is not yet clear whether there will be super ships in the game.
It is better to wait with fantasies until we are given more information on the game.
Otherwise, we risk disenchanting ourselves.

@nemesor-xanxas There is not much on it, since most of its systems are "dormant" , but it has targeting arrays that ignore Eldar holofields, has an Inertialess drive (Necrons no longer have it) and its cannon does not need a long chargeup time.

As for its speed I don't remember, but I do not think its very slow or very fast compared to other ships. It does have a lot of regular batteries and such, sized as it is "as a continent" and it does have hangar bays that can hold at least light cruiser size vessels.

Its intended purpose was to one shot the regular battleships and such in the Dark age of Technology, but the scientists were too terrified of the power they created to complete the construction, something that did not occur to the Mechanicus who gleefully finished it.

Its main cannon also "constructs" itself out of previously hidden components in a very short time, forming a cannon that runs almost all along the top of the ship but is otherwise fully hidden.

"The heart of this fleet was a vessel that could be called unique without fear of contradiction. A mighty star-borne colossus. A relic of a time when the mysteries of technology were not shrouded in a veil of ignorance, and whose violent birth had destroyed a world. Its inhuman scale was the product of men who dared to build the greatest things their imaginations could conceive.
Its name was Speranza, and it was Ark Mechanicus; the flagship of Archmagos Lexell Kotov.
Unlike the battleships built in the Imperium’s fortified shipyards, the Ark Mechanicus had not been wrought with any martial aesthetic in mind, nor had it accrued centuries of encrusted ornamentation to glorify long-dead saints or heroes of war. It was a vessel that would never be called beautiful, even by those who had built it, for it had no symmetry, no clean lines nor even much of a straight axis that allowed for spurious notions of aerodynamics.
The Speranza was a vessel forever bound to the void, and only the positioning of its vast plasma engines’ containment-field generators allowed an observer to know which end was the prow and which the stern. Its outer hull was a tangled arrangement of intestinal duct-work, exposed skeletal superstructure, and ray-shielded crew spaces. Its graceless topside and its bulbous underside were ribbed plateaus overgrown with geometric accretions of unchecked industry. Refineries, ore-processing plants, gene-holds, test ranges, manufactories, laboratoria, power generators and assembly forges clung to its flanks in a haphazard arrangement that owed nothing to any design philosophies other than need and practicality. The Speranza was a vessel of exploration and research, a mariner of the nebulae whose sole task was to be part of Kotov’s Quest for Knowledge.
Though the bulk of the Ark’s unimaginable mass was given over to the workings of technology and construction, it was not without teeth. Conventional munitions and rudimentary void-weaponry punctuated its length, but desperate need had revealed the presence of weapon technologies many magnitudes more lethal, secreted within lightless compartments long since forgotten by all save the ship itself."

"Power generation that could harness the galactic background radiation to propel ships beyond lightspeed, weapon-tech that could crack open planets and event horizon machines that had the power to drag entire star systems into their light- and time-swallowing embrace."

"he flanks of the Speranza shuddered as a weapon system built into its super- structure ground upwards on heavy duty rails. A vast gun tube rose from the angled planes of the Ark Mechanicus like the great menhir of some tribal place of worship being lifted into place. Power readouts, the likes of which had rarely been seen in the Imperium since before the wars of Unity, bloomed within the weapon and a pair of circling tori described twisting arcs around the tapered end of the unveiled barrel. Elements of the technology that had gone into their construction would have been familiar to some of the more esoteric branches of black hole re- search and relativistic temporal arcana, but their assembled complexity would have baffled even the Fabricator General on Mars. Pulsing streams of purple- hued anti-matter and graviton pumps combined in unknowable ways in the heart of a reactor that drew its power from the dark matter that lurked in the spaces between the stars. It was a gun designed to crack open the stately leviathans of ancient void war, a starship killer that delivered the ultimate coup de grace. Without any command authority from the bridge of the Speranza, the weapon unleashed a silent pulse that covered the distance to the Starblade at the speed of light. But even that wasn’t fast enough to catch a ship as nimble as one built by the bonesingers of Biel-Tan and guided by the prescient sight of a farseer. The pulse of dark energy coalesced a hundred kilometres off the vessel’s stern and a miniature black hole exploded into life, dragging in everything within its reach with howling force. Stellar matter, light and gravity were crushed as they were drawn in and destroyed, and even the Starblade’s speed and manoeu- vrability weren’t enough to save it completely as the secondary effect of the weapon’s deadly energies brushed over its solar sail. Chrono-weaponry shift- ed its target a nanosecond into the past, by which time the subatomic reac- tions within every molecule had shifted microscopically and forced identical neutrons into the same quantum space. Such a state of being was untenable on a fundamental level, and the resul- tant release of energy was catastrophic for the vast majority of objects hit by such a weapon. Though on the periphery of the streaming waves of chrono- metric energy, the Starblade’s solar mast detonated as though its internal structure had been threaded with explosive charges. The sail tore free of the ship, ghost images of its previous existence flickering as the
psycho-conductive wraithbone screamed in its death throes. Blue flame gey- sered from the topside of the eldar vessel and the craft lurched away from the force of the blast. "

@imperator that’s pretty neat. I wonder how strong it is at full power. Your wrong about the inertialess drive bit though. That bit of wardian stupidity was only in the 5e codex, and was immediately retconned to give them it back in everything that follows mentioning their fleet (fall of Orpheus, Shield Of Baal: Devourer, Shield Of Baal: Exterminatus, etc.). They have dolmen gates, but now it’s been changed that they have both instead of just one.

@nemesor-xanxas

Imperium: All good options. They have the most "outs" of any faction when it comes to unique ships, I'd wager.

Astartes: Again, I'd be willing to bet someone else's life on it being the Smurfmobile, Maccrage's Honor. We know Papa Smurf himself will be in the game, so it logically stands to reason he'd bring his special ride.

Adeptus Mechanicus: Agreed, that's likely the one they'd go with, if only for balance reasons.

Necron: Yeah, they have a million and one possibilities. I'd be down with any of them.

Chaos: All those are Chaos versions of Imperial ships. I'd hope that the "big Chaos endboss" would be something unique to them. Planet Killer fits that bill and then some.

Corsairs: Great suggestion, forgot about that one.

Craftworld: I was saying it wouldn't be a major Craftworld, like Biel-Tan. Also, they're still alive and kicking. But again, it's irrelevant. I'm sure the story in the game wouldn't allow us to cause the extinction of a major Eldar faction.

Drukhari: Aye, was thinking that myself. Unsure which way they'd go, with the current "civil war" lore happening.

T'au Protector: The nice thing about the T'au is that they just invent what they need to compete (See: KX139 Supremacy). I'm sure it'll be less of a stretch than whatever the Dark Eldar get.

T'au Merchant: I'M SUPER HAPPY YOU ASKED THIS. The use I can see is two fold: One, it could help balance the main T'au race. Instead of having slow, long-range glass cannons protected by tough, short-range brawlers, they'll be ONLY the former. Need to fight the T'au? Just rush up close and kick their teeth in. The second reason I could see is a really interested fleshing out of the "minor races" in Warhammer lore. More Demiurgs, more Kroot, more Drow, maybe even something from the Vespids. Could be a very interesting "hodgepodge" faction.

Orks: Agreed.

Tyranids: Yeah, there's a ton of really awesome choices here.

Yeah, the lore inconsistencies make this list a nightmare to try and figure out. Agreed that Blackstone Fortresses could be slightly OP, but just make them hilariously slow and you can have fleets kite the ever-loving hell out of them. I know the Inevitable Conquerer was supposedly destroyed, but then again, it was supposedly destroyed once before that too (Plus I love the fact Imotekh seems to troll the ever-loving piss out of the Space Marines). As for the T'au ones, they're basically impossible to get "true" heroic ships for, because they don't have any in the lore. And the Rakgol would be a hilariously awesome addition, even if it spits in the face of the lore. I also recognize that a couple of them are questionable (See: Inevitable Conquerer and Blackstone Fortress), but such is the lore of 40K in general (See: Literally anything in 40K).

@romeo Smurfmobile, that's a good one!

Not to Necro(n) the thread, but I thought it was worth noting that in Valrak's dev interview, they revealed every race would have at least one "super ship".

So this thread was surprisingly on point.

@romeo said in Super Ships:

Not to Necro(n) the thread, but I thought it was worth noting that in Valrak's dev interview, they revealed every race would have at least one "super ship".

So this thread was surprisingly on point.

Imperial Navy; Gloriana with Guilliman

Adeptus Astartes; The Phalanx

Adeptus Mechanicus; The Speranza maybe?

Orks: Space Hulk

Chaos: Planet Killer? Or Blackstone maybe?

Eldar: Not sure I hope it isn't a Craftworld. Those things are relatively unarmed and much much larger than any other ship we've seen in 40k that isn't some type of planetoid.

Tyranids; One of the mega-hive ships.

Necrons; Oversized Tomb Ship? (Night-bringers super-Cairn?) I sort of hope it isn't a World Engine given the scale involved :p (Or will the Cairn actually fill the role of supership entirely. Given that it's only marginally cheaper than the Planet Killer on Tabletop and can be more expensive...)

Tau; Yeah I got nothing here. The Tau don't have any canon super-ships so Tindalos are going to have to whip one up out of whole cloth here for both fleets.

@Kadaeux Craftworlds are definitely NOT unarmed. They're bristling with Pulsars and other ship-sized weaponry, and have multiple fleets in support. I don't think Tindalos can implement something like this well, because they're absolutely massive in scale compared to everything else listed.

@lkhero said in Super Ships:

@Kadaeux Craftworlds are definitely NOT unarmed. They're bristling with Pulsars and other ship-sized weaponry, and have multiple fleets in support. I don't think Tindalos can implement something like this well, because they're absolutely massive in scale compared to everything else listed.

Not unarmed. Relatively unarmed. In fact, we see numerous times in the books where Craftworlds are attacked and entirely reliant on their fleets to actually defend them. (When Iyanden got hit by the Tyranids once their defence fleet had been crushed they basically gave up hope until Yriel came and saved the day with his Corsair fleet.)

We know that at least one Craftworld is going to appear in the game, we see it in the trailer. I'm hoping it's just a story map though.

EDIT

One also has to consider that the Craftworlds are highly vulnerable, because they force the Eldar into something they suck at, a static defence.

last edited by Kadaeux

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