People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!

So that's it, after more than ONE year of promises and silence we have the answer. After I dont know how many times people asking, the unbalance, giving ideas, somebody even checking daily the forum with a post.... After all of it in order to get money for making the sequel you silenced and feed the flame of hope.... Good job Tindalos, so anything is valid in order

Well AT LEAST I hope the people who have the 1st Gothic Armada will get a BIG DISCOUNT for this new one.

If you didn't thought about it maybe is time to do it cause here are people, really good fans and you have been plainly manipulating us and... I dont know the rest of people but I dont like to be treated like an idiot and if the rest of the people buy it after all we have seen/suffered here with the 1st I hope neither of you have the courage to complaint again about the game.

TINDALOS is time to show your good faith with the fans, they deserve it!

what i think is that they been working hard on this series for over 4 years and deserve every penny they can get. besides, more money they get back, more they can build on it and improve it, maybe even another sequel. with the original game, they started with 2 factions in the previous game's beta and had 4 on release, plus two DLC and now we have 12 in the sequel that will be hell to balance. so the discount we get is buying a complete game. no dlc required

last edited by shadowsfm

@shadowsfm said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

what i think is that they been working hard on this series for over 4 years and deserve every penny they can get. besides, more money they get back, more they can build on it and improve it, maybe even another sequel. with the original game, they started with 2 factions in the previous game's beta and had 4 on release, plus two DLC and now we have 12 in the sequel that will be hell to balance. so the discount we get is buying a complete game. no dlc required

+1

Yeah Bosie yeah! Maybe they should raise the price till 50 euros! 12 armies man! and the multiplayer and everything will run as smooth as in the first one. Yeaaaah! no more promises , this is the final game of all times! Everything will be total balanced and we will make a lot of friends worldwide! 50 euos I said? why not 100?! Tindalos please 100 euros and you can include a mensual fee for your profesionalism and keep us updated so good

Good job Tindalos, you are an example to all the politicians around the world 🙂

@matacucasraid said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

Yeah Bosie yeah! Maybe they should raise the price till 50 euros! 12 armies man! and the multiplayer and everything will run as smooth as in the first one. Yeaaaah! no more promises , this is the final game of all times! Everything will be total balanced and we will make a lot of friends worldwide! 50 euos I said? why not 100?! Tindalos please 100 euros and you can include a mensual fee for your profesionalism and keep us updated so good

Good job Tindalos, you are an example to all the politicians around the world 🙂

I've had 479 hours of fun out of the first game. I bought in on early and got all the DLC for free. I then won some games in the tourney. I've paid £40+ for AAA games which have seen fewer than 2 hours use. I'd love to see an any faction campaign, even if I don't get that I'm still buying this game.

@matacucasraid No matter how hard Tindalos burned us with the furst BFG. What you are asking for is too much. Best thing you can do is wait till its dirt cheap which atm i can see happening very fast if the game fails. Its not unlikely.

@bosie said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

@shadowsfm said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

what i think is that they been working hard on this series for over 4 years and deserve every penny they can get. besides, more money they get back, more they can build on it and improve it, maybe even another sequel. with the original game, they started with 2 factions in the previous game's beta and had 4 on release, plus two DLC and now we have 12 in the sequel that will be hell to balance. so the discount we get is buying a complete game. no dlc required

+1

+2

@MataCucasRAID I understand your frustrations and anger towards Tindalos / Focus about the situation, but rather than becoming aggressive like last time which got you banned if I recall correctly, why not just hold off and wait to see how things are shaping up. For all we know they have entirely rebuilt the system to make the game better and give us what we promised, and whilst those of us who owned BFG:A(1) should probably get an apology, if they deliver with a working game we should be able to accept that.

Long story short, until we know more about the game, don't be so aggressive about something which we know very little about. We don't know why they've made their decision, and perhaps everything will be revealed soon...

@archmagos-alexi said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

@bosie said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

@shadowsfm said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

what i think is that they been working hard on this series for over 4 years and deserve every penny they can get. besides, more money they get back, more they can build on it and improve it, maybe even another sequel. with the original game, they started with 2 factions in the previous game's beta and had 4 on release, plus two DLC and now we have 12 in the sequel that will be hell to balance. so the discount we get is buying a complete game. no dlc required

+1

+2

@MataCucasRAID I understand your frustrations and anger towards Tindalos / Focus about the situation, but rather than becoming aggressive like last time which got you banned if I recall correctly, why not just hold off and wait to see how things are shaping up. For all we know they have entirely rebuilt the system to make the game better and give us what we promised, and whilst those of us who owned BFG:A(1) should probably get an apology, if they deliver with a working game we should be able to accept that.

Long story short, until we know more about the game, don't be so aggressive about something which we know very little about. We don't know why they've made their decision, and perhaps everything will be revealed soon...

Not sure if a +1, +3 or both is required now... 😄

I think I'm in a "wait and see" boat this time around. Make no mistake, I LOVED my time with the first game, and would've happily pre-ordered the second as soon as I was able, were it not for how Focus Home handled the community the last couple years. I would've been fine with a "we have nothing to announce for now, sorry". But stringing everyone along for that long was beyond obnoxious.

If the second comes out and gets rave reviews for the singleplayer, I'll pick it up. But they've lost me as a dedicated fan.

All I want to be a beta tester if they need some 😉

@archmagos-alexi
"For all we know they have entirely rebuilt the system to make the game better and give us what we promised, and whilst those of us who owned BFG:A(1) should probably get an apology, if they deliver with a working game we should be able to accept that"

Alexi maybe for you is enough an apology for been lying for 2 years to the fans. For me that is not acceptable.

I bought a game with several promises that this company did not satisfied not even close. Is normal that I want some kind of compensation cause... who tells me that they can not do the same with the second part?

@Bosie You are so funny with the +1 and +3.... man I am in the floor laughing so hard... This remembers me when you were begging to Tindalos for several months like a caker 😄

@matacucasraid said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

@Bosie You are so funny with the +1 and +3.... man I am in the floor laughing so hard... This remembers me when you were begging to Tindalos for several months like a caker 😄

Show me on the doll where Tindalos touched you.

@matacucasraid said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

@archmagos-alexi
"For all we know they have entirely rebuilt the system to make the game better and give us what we promised, and whilst those of us who owned BFG:A(1) should probably get an apology, if they deliver with a working game we should be able to accept that"

Alexi maybe for you is enough an apology for been lying for 2 years to the fans. For me that is not acceptable.

I bought a game with several promises that this company did not satisfied not even close. Is normal that I want some kind of compensation cause... who tells me that they can not do the same with the second part?

@Bosie You are so funny with the +1 and +3.... man I am in the floor laughing so hard... This remembers me when you were begging to Tindalos for several months like a caker 😄

I've no idea what a caker is.

@romeo said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

Show me on the doll

Well, not only me, seems Tindalos have a lot of Fans about everything concerned the BG 1

https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/15742/dawn-of-war-3-3-factions-for-like-half-a-year-meanwhile-at-battlefleet-gothic-armada-2

For example this one:

"The "issues" the game had were obvious signs of developer incompetence and/or laziness. Tindalos did a good job creating the atmosphere and feel of Battlefleet Gothic, but the actual game was terrible. The spammy teleported bombs, the 100% broken map modes (planetary bombardment lol), the absurd RNG and the brutal balance were things that were never addressed and the game was more or less abandoned in less than half a year.

I'll not be buying the sequel, at least not until it's deeply discounted"

Feel free to comment there 😉

Well, as far as I read there are 4 people complaining about the game being bad in MP. Thats correct. This 4 people spam pretty much the same stuff over and over. Then there are around 20 people that say they like the campaign and the "feeling" of the game, but not the MP. I only played MP for testing and otherwise only coop with friends and the campaign. I don't need versus MP, but I need a decent campaign with great immersive feeling. I got it, and I liked it, and so did around 15 of my friends who bought the game. Most of them never even touched MP. The 40k community out there (btw I am Mod in one of the biggest german 40k forums) are desperate for a good singleplayer 40k game. Screw MP, go for multiple SP campaigns with the great artwork and atmo we had in the first game, that's what I am looking for.

BTW, according to Steam Spy the Metascore for BFG:A is just as good as for DoW3, and the Userscore for BFG:A is FAAAAAR better than for DoW3. And it seems there are still 10,000 people playing BfG:A on a regular basis.

last edited by Hjalfnar_HGV

@hjalfnar_hgv And that basically sums up the issues and positives in a nutshell.

So for now we should all just take a break and wait to see what happens, in two weeks we will be getting more information, when that time comes then we can make some proper initial judgements.

@hjalfnar_hgv DoW3 pretty much embodies why I think that for a 40k game, multiplayer really needs to be the last consideration for a dev team. It's nice, DoW1 had fun MP, but it's "not what we're here for" with most people i've spoken to and played with.

And of those, in my experience anyway, most people were far more interested in a co-op experience than a vs experience multiplayer-wise. (Something DoW2 did ok at.)

I get games like this for the PvP, most people I know are the same. I guess it's down to the circle you're in. Without any real data none of us know what % of the players do what.

@bosie I think even in DoW2 only around 5% of the people who bought the game played the multiplayer, and only a part of them PVP. SEGA released some numbers years ago. I played some coop DoW2 against AI but overall didn't like the whole game a lot and stuck with DoW1. It is the same for most RTS or RTT titles: There are simply not a lot of MP players who actively play PVP. They are just pretty...vocal, you might say.

@hjalfnar_hgv said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

@bosie I think even in DoW2 only around 5% of the people who bought the game played the multiplayer, and only a part of them PVP. SEGA released some numbers years ago. I played some coop DoW2 against AI but overall didn't like the whole game a lot and stuck with DoW1. It is the same for most RTS or RTT titles: There are simply not a lot of MP players who actively play PVP. They are just pretty...vocal, you might say.

I've no doubt doubt that minorities can be the most vocal, and I'm ready to accept that MP make up a small % of the player base if the evidence supports it. I would like to know why did Tind concentrate on the MP side with their patches if MP is irrelevant to the games survival.

@bosie Because that was the part that needed work. You may as well go "why did they focus on the blown tire when what I really like is a paintjob"

Patches are designed to fix problems.

Don't misunderstand me there, MP is important and helps keeping a game alive. If you get the MP right your game could be running for years, every now and then getting a small DLC here or an additional buyer there because somebody watched a video of a particular cool MP battle. But if your potential buyers are mostly the singleplayer type, multiple SP campaigns are more worth it. There are only very few games out there that were actually able to combine both if you look at RTS and RTT (C&C Generals, StarCraft1/2, DoW1/2, CoH1/2). And BFG:A1 excelled at campaign...so why not do it like Wolfenstein and go for singleplayer only, or at least mostly? At least financially it is a sound plan. Release one or two major DLCs with new campaigns and some minor ones with additional units, factions or missions for existing campaigns (like Total War and for example XCOM1/2 did), maybe a FreeLC...and the singleplayer faction will love you and pay a load of money.

Yes, I am not looking at this topic from a players perspective, of course, and especially not a multiplayers one. But if you want to understand the reasons for a developers and publishers actions (and please remember a dev studio is not necessarily responsible for "abandoning" a game, it is usually the publisher), you need to understand where the money comes from. Main reason why I said three years ago a TW: China was overdue.

last edited by Hjalfnar_HGV

@kadaeux said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

@bosie Because that was the part that needed work. You may as well go "why did they focus on the blown tire when what I really like is a paintjob"

Patches are designed to fix problems.

We can debate this all day, however unless Tind inform us of the metrics all we are doing is guessing as to why they focused on the MP side of the game.

@bosie

Not really. We don't need the metrics to know. Because all you had to do was look at the forums. People weren't complaining about the Campaign or Skirmish modes, and when problems were brought up in those they were rapidly fixed.

No, if you looked at the old forums and at the patchnotes, you'd see an almost 100% correlation between complaints to "fixes" IMO, that there is where Tindalos messed up with the first game. They nerfed one faction into complete dust in response to complaints from people. (Mind you, I was part of the beta testing, and I Still think they screwed up making Pulsars a micro-ability instead of regular standard rapid-firing lances they should have been. The same reason I can't figure out why they made Nova Cannons swivelling turrets when they're kilometre long fixed spinal weapons that need the ships engines to cope with the recoil, put it on a gimbal like that and it'd get torn clean off the first time it was fired.)

No. The focus on MP for patches was purely and clearly evidence because that was where almost all the complaints were. And the MP actually suffered for that because they were a little too heavy-handed with the Thunder Hammer of Nerfing +10.

@bosie said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

@kadaeux said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

@bosie Because that was the part that needed work. You may as well go "why did they focus on the blown tire when what I really like is a paintjob"

Patches are designed to fix problems.

We can debate this all day, however unless Tind inform us of the metrics all we are doing is guessing as to why they focused on the MP side of the game.

...How did they focus on the multiplayer side? They tried rebalancing things, which affected literally everyone, multiplayer or not.

The game's skirmish was basically pvp against comps.

The problem with the MP was that it was progression based, which gated a lot of players.

@hjalfnar_hgv said in People deserve to have their faith rewarded TINDALOS!:

Well, as far as I read there are 4 people complaining about the game being bad in MP. Thats correct. This 4 people spam pretty much the same stuff over and over. Then there are around 20 people that say they like the campaign and the "feeling" of the game, but not the MP. I only played MP for testing and otherwise only coop with friends and the campaign. I don't need versus MP, but I need a decent campaign with great immersive feeling. I got it, and I liked it, and so did around 15 of my friends who bought the game. Most of them never even touched MP. The 40k community out there (btw I am Mod in one of the biggest german 40k forums) are desperate for a good singleplayer 40k game. Screw MP, go for multiple SP campaigns with the great artwork and atmo we had in the first game, that's what I am looking for.

BTW, according to Steam Spy the Metascore for BFG:A is just as good as for DoW3, and the Userscore for BFG:A is FAAAAAR better than for DoW3. And it seems there are still 10,000 people playing BfG:A on a regular basis.

Tindalos cant say screw multiplayer because they are trying to attract both casual and competetive players. They made a bold promise of "improving balance and multuplayer"

If multiplayer is going to suck they might as well remove it as a feature and focus solely on PVE content.

BFGA is a dead game. 10k users is what 100 people playing on a daily basis. Still is pretty shit.

Also in regards to the few people bashing BFGA on DoW3 forums. They have every right to do so and its not like they are not bringing up good points.

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS

I pretty sure the "improving balance and multiplayer" is going to be in the form of restricted missions or mision parameters depending on match up. Perhaps we will get larger fleet roasters so one can adjust their picks better since there are so many more matchups, but I doubt cruiser clash is going to be balanced across all matchups.

Since this turned into an 'SP vs MP' thread, I guess I'll add my input as one of the oldest still-active players.

The MP sucks. Plain and Simple.
I tired to defend it for a while, since the fundamental stuff (the feel and functionality) were good, but massively OP fleet comp-stomps and progression-based fleet building (not helped in the slightest by penalising those who lost a lot of ships with high repair costs) just completely killed it not long after arrival.
It never seemed able to shake the dominance of one or two fleets over everything else, and credit to Tindalos for trying to fix things with the dramatic Ork Kannonz nerf, nerfing the Eldar and nerfing Nova Cannons (to the point of useless gimmick status sadly). Never did touch the Tau though, which have... dubious balancing at best.

The SP, however, was better. Story was solid, some cool mechanics and ideas presented in the campaign, and excellent voice acting and overall thematic feel. There was also a good introduction for new players into how to play the game, and a slightly more forgiving environment to experiment with the progression system. However, even this had problems. The Campaign we got was bloated with repetitive missions that played just like Skirmishes (which made the game overall get very repetitive after 200+ hours), the campaign was too short if you striped away these grindy elements, and the one campaign with Imperial Navy was all we got.

There is a lot of room for improvement, but BFG1 was a solid game despite all the downfalls. So I'm cautiously optimistic for the future of this new game, as it is building on strong foundations, and the promise of more content in all categories was certainly a surprise for me. Hopefully the promise of multiple campaigns is actually meaningful, and not simply the DoW: Retribution copy-paste treatment, especially since BFG1s campaign was very boring at times...

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