COOP bots feedback: molotovs?(!)

There's a couple problems with current AI.

Laser-guided molotovs.
The grenades are perfectly fine. It's super awesome to spot a nade and run to safety in time. They sometimes cook them too much to run, but that's ok. It's war after all. But molotovs? Molotovs just kill you instantly. Just now we lost a match because 4 of us got burned to death by laser-guided molotovs on one objective. It's a bit ridiculous, especially when they do it without any line of sight.

Pistols?
Most AI seem to run with pistols a lot? And 10 out of 14 AIs seem to be the breacher class? Is it some intentional handicap to make them easier or something? Please make them use a bigger variety of weapons, like shotguns, lmgs etc. And maybe bring back Grenade Launchers. Just make them super inaccurate and finally add the travel-safety-distance so they don't blow themselves with them alahu ackbar style.

IEDs.
They seem to have been nerfed a little. I think there should be only one IED per objective. Their detonation time should be only slightly shorter than it is. And if the phone rings, it should explode, regardless of whether the guy lives or not. IEDs should be terrifying. People should struggle to decide in that split second whether to shoot or run. Currently, there's a bunch of IEDs per objective and its a bit silly and non-threatening to just shoot them... They only do anything if they sneak behind us and we are distracted. Instead, the IED guys should warn about their presence with some cool voice call. Now that would be awesome and would greatly add to the games experience, authenticity and feel.

last edited by Pakislav

The problem with grenade launchers on AIs wasn't that they worked as intended. It was that they were bugged and fired 3 rounds in under a second, there was no minimum distance (bots often suicided using them). So there was literally no way to defend against it.

You started your post saying you don't like game mechanics you can't defend against (molotovs), and then say its ok for bots to have noob tubes again. You REALLY don't want bots to have noob tubes.

@AMURKA
At least read the post you bash. I pointed out making noob tubes inaccurate and adding distance-safety.

I have to agree with the comment about Molotov, the bots throw them from a great distance and yet they manage to get them to land on your head. In one map just now I was just inside a large room when a bot, who was several hundred yards away, threw a Molotov which arched high into the air to come through the doorway and land directly on top of me!

@pakislav
Aggreed on Molotovs....we had this crap in Beta 1, now itÂŽs back, why?!

Agreed on IEDs. But they don't have to talk. They don't do that IRL. They dial a phone number that reaches the bomb, and it then explodes. They don't need to ask the bomb permission to set itself off.

I also agree on Molotovs. The rest I'm not entirely convinced.

@grumf said in COOP bots feedback: molotovs?(!):

But they don't have to talk. They don't do that IRL

They DON'T go "ALLAHU ACKBAR!"? Well even if, that's not an issue. That would be for game balance and pacing. It would introduce tension, knowing that there's an IED guy around. One that actually poses a deadly threat. And is either coming or camping.

@pakislav Islamist terrorists do that. But the game doesn't want to get too political. We don't know for sure if they are some ISIS fucks, or just random rebels. Devs would have truckloads of problems if suicide bombers were to shout "allahu akbar".

They don't have to scream 'allahu ackbar'.

@grumf said in COOP bots feedback: molotovs?(!):

But the game doesn't want to get too political.

The insurgents already say things like "by God we have done it" and stuff like that, I think NWI should just embrace the reality of the world and go with it...

(1) Insurgents should speak Arabic mostly
(2) Insurgents should pray more and make more references to God

Of course there's a point where this gets too excessive, but I'm sure there's a good balance to it, which is under-satisfied right now.

@thehappybub I think not. It's good as it is right now. The game doesn't represent a specific conflict with specific factions. Insurgents are called insurgents for a reason : it's generic. Nothing can tell you whether they are muslim fundamentalists or just rebels against their government or even some other shit.

American people also say "Oh my god", or "Thank god" a lot, amongst other things related to christianity (in fact, more than any other developped countries' peoples), yet that doesn't mean every character with American voice should spam this kind of lines too.

Also, Insurgents speaking mostly arabic would be a huge problem for communication between players themselves, for those who play mostly coop and/or don't have a mic/don't speak English. Plus, it most likely bring problems for NWI's public image, especially since there are suicide bombers in the game, which could already be considered as politically incorrect. Would probably attract the bad kind of attention they don't need nor deserve. They are trying to make it to the competitive scene, keep that in mind.

I wouldn't want to play as a retarded religious fanatic when I'm on the Insurgents' side. That would be very unsettling and would make many players prefer the Security faction. I like that you can pretend Insurgents aren't necessarily religious madmen, and that Security forces aren't necessarily an imperialistic force on foreign ground. I feel like Insurgency is not the right type of game for that. I can totally accept that in a more realistic game, though. Like Squad or ArmA, for instance. I can't accept that from a game that aims at being released on consoles too, and thrive on the competitive scene, exposing itself to massive amounts of attention from various media.

last edited by Grumf

@grumf said in COOP bots feedback: molotovs?(!):

Nothing can tell you whether they are muslim fundamentalists or just rebels against their government

Other than suicide bombers, IEDs, head wraps and designer clothing. The "it's generic" is clearly just a 'don't sue us, it's fiction' PR language. Having said that I'm grateful for that, and for security being locals, since we can pretend it's not all just bad people fighting bad people as you point out.

As for 'arabic' language. There's already a ton of arabic in the game; yallah, Ishagamelon etc. The important bits should of course stay in broken english, unless NWI adds more voiced languages support, chances for which are null.

Speaking of which... I should make a suggestion about russian/ukrainian accented voice for insurgents.

last edited by Pakislav

@pakislav Yeah, sucide bombers are pretty obvious, and I already said that it could already be considered as politically incorrect. Not that I don't like them. I just think NWI has no need to push things further than that if they want their game to be actually appealing to everyone.
Head wraps don't mean shit, though. Many people wear some kind of head wrap in middle-east, and even in North Africa. Helps with sand and heat. Head wraps =/= terrorist. IEDs don't mean anything either. IEDs/makeshift explosives were and still are used by every rebel groups around the globe, not necessarily religious fundamentalists.

You're right for arabic already being used in the game. I said that it was fine and didn't need to be used "a lot more" by insurgents, including actual prayers, that's all. I like that both insurgent and security have a few words in arabic. Makes it more natural without getting too political.
Now, Russian/Ukrainian would not make much sense in that game, especially on the insurgents' side... That would just plainly kill coherence and credibility.

last edited by Grumf

@Grumf
American "advisers" are ok, but Russian not ok? No Russian mercenaries? No chechen international fighters? Voice for future mods and expansions? It makes a metric shitton of sense and is an obvious choice. Wouldn't be surprised if it was already planned/in the making.

@pakislav Russians aren't as much present in middle-east compared to local forces and americans... Ukrainians even less. I don't think it's a priority. We then would have to include the French too, and so many other nationalities... It would not make any sense in terms of proportion. There are not enough people in one team to have a realistic representation. Can you imagine if most people on the server used Russian voices ? Derpy derp situation...

Metric is used for its universality. If the game was meant to be played by americans only, imperial system would be used. This has nothing to do with anything... Nobody besides Americans (and 2-3 third-world countries tops) understand imperial system. Of course the game has to use metric...

last edited by Grumf

@grumf said in COOP bots feedback: molotovs?(!):

Russians aren't as much present in middle-east compared to local forces and americans

Russians have official boots on the ground in Syria. Americans not so much. Russia also has been involved in the region much longer than US. Adding one (more) voice that makes sense doesn't force you to add every language in the world. Even Insurgent fashion trends (tracksuits) suit a Russian stereotype. 😉

Too many Russian voices? Chechens usually fight in their own units. Why's American-only not "derpy"? We aren't encroaching on racism here, are we?

A 'metric shitton' is an expression denoting 'a lot'. It's not a comment on systems of measurements.

Of course we don't have to agree. We could take this discussion to a more fitting place tho: here.

last edited by Pakislav

@pakislav Oh, okay, sorry for that. I misunderstood. English is not my primary language.

Well, I guess that if Russians make sense, I could live with it... I'll just let the devs decide what's good for their game and if that sticks to their vision, then.

Mmmmh... After some research, Russians don't have that much troops in middle-east. They send equipment, and stand for Bashar al-Assad, yet appart from that... Chechens aren't very present compared to other main actors of the conflict.

Chechens are indeed close to isis, tbf. So that wouldn't be too much of a problem. If and only if NWI wants to take position on who's who in that virtual conflict compared to reality. Of course.

last edited by Grumf

In the closed alpha, the insurgent forces spoke almost exclusively Arabic and it was great. I don't know why they made everyone speak English, its kind of an immersion breaker for me when I play insurgents. I get that English speakers won't really understand what they're saying but does it really matter?

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