the way i always thought of it is while imperial ships have a light cruiser, cruiser, and battlecruiser tier, chaos (using 10k year old tech) has a cruiser, heavy cruiser, and grand cruiser tier. it feels weird that the original game went out of its way to make all factions symmetrical in ship tiers. this gives the impression that imperial tech have shrunk over the many millenniums as knowledge has been lost
@shadowsfm Imperial tech hasn't really shrunk, its just changed. The Overlord Battlecruiser and most of the cruisers are flat upgrades that (supposedly) render the Chaos equivalents obsolete. Chaos stays in the game with the power of the warp enhancing their capacities beyond their original design.
@caliger_reborn my defence on my views regarding grand cruisers:
Grand cruisers are vastly powerful and archaic warships,
remnants of a more technologically advanced era of Imperial
history. Only battleships carry heavier armour or wield more
firepower. These vessels were once the core of battlefleet
squadrons, tough warships designed for concerted broadside
actions and punishing void-duels.
The battlecruiser concept arose as a result of the perceived
failures of the older grand cruiser designs. These had been built
around advanced experimental drive systems, which ultimately
proved to be unacceptably prone to catastrophic malfunction
during warp transit. As a result of these issues, grand cruisers
came to be regarded by many as cursed ships. Furthermore,
during the internecine conflict of the Age of Apostasy, several
of the skills required to safely maintain the arcane technologies
of the grand cruisers were lost, rendering them hazardous.
Rogue Trader - Battlefleet Koronus pade 20 -21
edit. cant fix font size
@shadowsfm It's not all that odd. You read the BFG BBB (Big Blue Book) and while some of the technology on the Chaos Fleet is more advanced "Heresy" era equipment, heavy Cruisers are markedly inferior to Battlecruisers on a 'point for point' basis. Meanwhile the Grand Cruisers are underpowered Battleships.
Of course. Later material gave the Imperium Grand Cruisers. But the Heavy vs Battlecruiser was never 'made up for'.
BUT If you look at the artwork. It's also very clear that the Chaos Fleet from Gothic era was markedly different, the Imperial Ships 'now' are a return to the Heresy era aesthetic for shipbuilding. So at some point Imperial design changed, and ultimately, the new ship (Chaos Fleet) weren't viable or were vulnerable to chaos corruption.
The core of the Modern Chaos Fleet is made up of vessels that were designed and run throughout the Horus heresy era and were built upon a different design philosophy, one based on speed and devastating strikes.
As the centuries went by the Imperial Navy made a shift towards super heavy arms and armour, foregoing the traditional designs more and more as technology was deemed heretical or irreparable etc.
Of serious note that is the fact that, whilst the core of a Chaos fleet is made of ancient vessels, it is by no means limited to it. There are vessels in the chaos fleet that were designed as late as M40 that now see widespread use in chaos warfleets.
Believe it or not, during the Heresy era the Murder and Slaughter Class of vessels were quite common, the problem is that very few 40k players / writers / artists study the lore of BFG and so they don't realise that the vessels back then looked nothing like their modern counterparts, which causes some issues as you could imagine.
That aside, we've gone rather off topic so i think it would be better if people went back to discussing what they desire to see in the game ship wise, and if you must discuss the lore behind Chaos & imperial Fleets then perhaps another thread should be made for it?
Not quite. While some of the designs were present, the artists working on the subject do have access to the whole gamut so not using chaos designs often while producing artwork for the Horus Heresy implies that the Chaos Fleet as we know it was not all that common in the Heresy. (And we know that most classes of Chaos Ship were still being produced by the Imperium up until early Gothic War. As evidenced by the Acheron Heavy Cruiser.)
BUT on the flip side of the coin.
White Dwarf's around when BFG was being released did specify that both sides used ships of both design elements, but that they were separated for gameplay reasons.
@kadaeux The point I was trying to make is that in the Horus Heresy Era the ships that the Chaos Fleets are modeled after were more common but artwork almost exclusively shows the "Imperial" concepts in images etc, which is what I meant when I said that a lot of artists and writers don't seem to be fully aware of the lore for the time.
Aye, and my final one was that ultimately it's not very consistent :p like Segmentum Obscurus designs having VASTLY different prow designs etc. But ultimately consistency is a problem. I've seen at least six different 'canon' pieces of art for the Vengeful Spirit, and if you put them side-by side you'd swear they were made by completely different groups.
I would like to add that I read something that a lot of the current Chaos ships are of M36 make.
Not all of them are HH era material, the HH era seemed to have ships that both had the heavy prow and the dagger like design elements, with Imperium and Chaos diverging into their niche looks later.
It is a bit like how the Republic's last warships were markedly Star Destroyer like, which harken back to the Harrower battlecruisers of the new Sith Empire.
Which is odd , for old Sith Empire had BFG like ships.
Old Sith Empire warships:
New Sith Empire ships:
Tribune, Imperial Fist warship that shows both design elements:
Just as the long time ago Kuat shipyards had their unique Star Destroyer wedge shape looks, so does the ships of Voss Forge World have their unique prow designs:
For the use of old lore, the Furious abyss does look like Space Fleet's imperial cruisers a lot: