New ships needed and overveiw

Hello again everyone. As all factions are being introduced into the new version of gothic, something of a disparity has become obvious. While the imperial navy has quite a few pages of ship classes, most other factions are less fortunate. The Necrons have 5 ships, the Mechanicus have 3, while the Drukhari have 2, none of which are enough for the BFG Escort-Light Cruiser-Heavy Cruiser-Battlecruiser-Battleship setup (2 of the necron ships are escorts). Ignoring the new super ships like the gloriana that will be showing up as likely their own class (the subject of my other thread), new ships will needed to be added in order to include them in the game. As such, I would ask for suggestions from those present, primarily for those without the needed number (the above mentioned) but in fairness I will list all classes of ship even if they aren't in game, so suggestions are welcome for other factions as well. If you are looking for information on the below ships, the wonderful ship profiles thread on the forum should help, or alternatively Lexicanum. Please note the below are only major warships, and things like monitors or stealth ships have been left out. Additionally, I have listed classes of ships that are not in any source material, but do exist.

Battleships:: The most powerful ship typically found in a fleet, known for big guns and tough armor
-Imperial: Apocalypse Class, Gloriana Class, Emperor Class, Oberon Class, Retribution Class, Vanquisher Class, Victory Class, Invincible Class
-Astartes: Battlebarge, Gloriana Class
-Mechanicus: Ark Mechanicus
-Chaos: Furious Abyss Class, Battle Barge, Gloriana, Planet Killer, Daemonship, Desolator Class
-Orks: Spacehulks, Ork Battleships (all are unique)
-Aeldari Corsairs: Void Stalker
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: Or'es El'leath Class
-T'au Merchant Fleet: Gal'leath class, Demiurg Stronghold class commerce vessel
-Tyranids: Hive Ship
-Necrons: Cairn Class

Battle Carrier A merging of battleship weapons and carrier flexibility, it is versatile but lacks the strengths of either of them.
-Imperial: Emperor Class, Exorcist Class
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: Desecrator Class, Retaliator Class
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: None
-Necrons: None

Fleet Carrier: This is the largest kind of carrier, and the kind that most refer to when simply saying carrier. It possesses no official class withing the IoM Navy and as such is present in other classifications of ships. The main difference between these and warships that carry a squadron or two is that the starcraft being deployed are both its purpose in and primary contribution to the battle.
-Imperial: Nemesis Class
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: Despoiler Class
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: none
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: None
-Necrons: None

Ironclad: Imperium only class with no shields but a very durable hull. Primarily for ramming. The only type is the namesake Ironclad.
-Imperial: Ironclad
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: None
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: None
-Necrons: None

Grand Cruisers: Midway between a cruiser and battleship. If a fleet does not have one, they typically use one of these as their flagship. Also referred to as pocket battleships.
-Imperial: Avenger Class, Vengeance Class, Furious Class
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: Repulsive Class, Executor Class, Furious Class
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: none
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: None
-Necron: None

Battle Cruisers: Cruisers that are larger than average and have battleship grade weapons. In exchange for such power they lose the durability advantage battleships are often known for, leading to them relying on their superior speed, and birthing the saying speed is armor.
-Imperial: Armageddon Class, Mars Class, Overlord Class, Chalice Class, Dominion Class, Mercury Class, Long Serpent Class
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: None
-Orks: Battlekrooza
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: Kroot Warsphere
-Tyranids: None
-Necrons: None

Armored Cruiser Cruisers that have heavy belt armor similar to a battleship, but are fast enough to outrun them. Do very well against all but the above due to said armor.
-Imperial: None
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: None
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: Wraithship
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: None
-Necrons: None

Heavy Cruisers: More or less a cruiser with more gun and armor
-Imperial: None
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: Hades Class, Archeron Class, Hellfire Class, Hecate Class
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: Bastion Class Commerce Vessel
-Tyranids: Devourer Class
-Necrons: None

Protected Cruiser: A protected cruiser has additional armor similar to a Heavy cruiser, but not as much as to retain its speed. It only protects its vital spots, meaning it is no more durable than the average cruiser but more likely to survive critical hits.
-Imperial: None
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: None
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: none
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: Razorfiend Class
-Necrons: None

Auxiliary Cruisers: Hastily converted Merchant ships that serve as cruisers to the desperate
--Imperial: Q-ship, Fire Ship
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: None
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: None
-Necrons: None

Escort Carriers Carriers 1/2-2/3s he size of a fleet carrier, these are present to scout, provided CAP, and other such support to fleets that would be vulnerable without them
-Imperial: Dictator Class
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: Styx Class, Devastation Class,
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: Eclipse Class
-Aeldari Craftworlds: Eclipse Class
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: None
-Necrons: None

Cruisers: Main Capitol Ship present in most fleets, this is where the distinction between non capitol and capitol ships begins.
-Imperial: Lunar Class, Dominator Class, Cardinal Class, Tyrant Class, Gothic Class
-Astartes: Strike Cruiser
-Mechanicus: Mechanicus Cruiser
-Chaos: Carnage Class, Murder Class, Slaughter Class, Daemon Ship, Strike Cruiser, Inferno Class
-Orks: Kill Krooza, Terror Ship
-Aeldari Corsairs: Dragon Ship, Shadow Class
-Aeldari Craftworlds: Dragon Ship, Shadow Class
-Drukhari: Torture Class
-T'au Protector Fleet: Il'Fannor Class, Lar'shi Class, Il'Porui Class, Lar'shi'vre Class
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: Dark Prowler Class
-Necrons: Scythe Class Harvest Vessel

Light Carrier: Small carrier with typically 1/2 to 2/3 the amount of planes in a normal carriers load out.
-Imperial: Defiant Class, Enforcer Class
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: Hellbringer Class
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: None
-Necrons: None

Light Cruisers: Small, fast cruisers that are relatively unarmored, though do still possess belt armor
-Imperial: Dauntless Class, Endeavor Class, Endurance Class, Defender Class, Siluria Class
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: Mechanicus Light Cruiser
-Chaos: Pestilan Class
-Orks: Lite Krooza
-Aeldari Corsairs: Aurora Class, Solaris Class
-Aeldari Craftworlds: Aurora Class, Solaris Class
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet:
-T'au Merchant Fleet
-Tyranids: Void Feind Class
-Necrons: Shroud Class, Kopesh Class

Heavy Frigates
-Imperial: Turbulent Class
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: None
-Orks: None
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: None: None
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None: None
-Tyranids: None
-Necrons: None

Frigates: An escort type typically used to protect another ship
-Imperial: Sword Class, Firestorm Class, Tempest Class, Turbulent Class, Havoc Class
-Astartes: Nova Class, Gladius Class
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: None
-Orks: Onslaught Attack Ship
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: Kir'qath Class, Kir'shasvre Class
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: War Drone, Kraken Subspecies (Ramsritter, Smeltfeaster, Hellblaster, Doomripper, and Deathburner)
-Necrons: Jackal Class Raider

Destroyers: Fast ship with large guns for its chassis
-Imperial: Cobra Class, Viper Class
-Astartes: Hunter Class
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: Iconoclast Class
-Orks: Savage Gunship, Ravager Attack Ship
-Aeldari Corsairs: Aconite Class, Nightshade Class, Hellbore Class, Hemlock Class
-Aeldari Craftworlds: Aconite Class, Nightshade Class, Hellbore Class, Hemlock Class, Shadowhunter Class
-Drukhari: Corsair Escort
-T'au Protector Fleet: Kir'la Escort, Il'emaar
-T'au Merchant Fleet: None
-Tyranids: Vanguard Drone
-Necrons: Dirge Class Raider

Corvettes: Small, badly armed ships that are fast and cheap to make
-Imperial: Claymore Class
-Astartes: None
-Mechanicus: None
-Chaos: Infidel Raider, Idolator Raider
-Orks: Grunt Assualt Ships, Brute Ram Ships
-Aeldari Corsairs: None
-Aeldari Craftworlds: None
-Drukhari: None
-T'au Protector Fleet: Skether'qan Class, Kass'l Class gunship
-T'au Merchant Fleet: Nicassar Dhow
-Tyranids: Vanguard Drone
-Necrons: None

Additionally, ship classes have abbreviations, and are typically given a number based on production line (BB-61, the uss Iowa in real life). This rarely comes up in warhammer due to emphasis on characters and heroic ships, but the abbreviations can be of use for those who wish to shorten things or understand more technical documents. These are, again, more general terms and more exist than are present.

Carriers
-CV: Fleet Carrier
-CVB: Battle carrier
-CBV: Aviation Battleship (BB with limited carrier capacity)
-CVE: Escort Carrier
-CVL: Light Carrier

Capitol Ship
-ACR: Armored Cruiser
-BB: Battleship
-BBG: Guided Missile Battleship
-BM: Monitor
-C: Cruiser
-CA: Heavy Cruiser
-CB: Large Cruisers/Protected Cruisers
-CC/CB: Battle Cruiser (Note: Battle Cruisers are usually referred to as CB, but this can cause confusion with the above)
-CG: Grand Cruiser (abbreviation unknown, lets use this for now)
-CL: Light Cruiser
-CM: Mine Layer Cruiser
-HSK: Auxiliary Cruiser

Escorts
-DD: Destroyer
-DDC: Corvette
-DDE: Escort Destroyer
-DE: Destroyer Escort (Yes this and DDE are different things)
-DM: Destroyer Minelayer
-DMS: Destroyer Minesweeper
-FF: Frigate
-FFA: Heavy Frigate (Note: The heavy frigate has only one example that has not abbreviation, but using common nomenclature this is likely what it would be)
-PF: Patrol Frigate
-FFL: Light Frigate
-PG: Patrol Gunboat

last edited by Nemesor Xanxas

Some missing ships, some incorrectly labelled, and you listed Hades twice.
But otherwise a fairly comprehensive list.

An impressive collection indeed. Although your list does actually point out ow some of these factions may gain more ships with the simple fact that the Astartes Light Cruisers are not listed, because they were only mentioned in the background of several novels until BFG:A(1) brought them to the forefront.

This would indicate that Tindalos is not afraid to bury into the lore to find mention of ship classes, and GW has likely been assisting them with creating various other ship types. Furthermore, as we saw with the Adeptus Astartes in BFG:A(1), they may not stick to the generic fleet formations we saw previously and instead create unique rosters to fit the faction.

Still, the worry is there and until we find out more information about the minor fleets it is a legitimate concern as to what they'll get. Hopefully we get some useful information soon.

@caliger_reborn yeah I had trouble placing some of these, especially the escorts because some of them (especially the tau and necron ones) are just called escorts, so I read their duty descriptions and tried to place them from their. Just noticed the hades bit, I'll try and fix them. Some ships also have multiple classifications irritatingly. For example, the Nemesis class is classified as and in the section for battleships, but is explicitly referred to as a fleet carrier, so for things like that I tried to also place based on role.

@Archmagos-Alexi I haven't read all the books (there are something like 300+ of those if I recall correctly, and of supremely varying quality), so I only know what I can gleam from several IA books, the BFG books and magazine, the same for specielist gaming, and my collection of novels, codexes, and supplements. Altogether I probably have less than 20% of published material, and its getting worse as the horus heresy series stretches on and creates more and more abominations (furious abyss class literally what is this tomfoolery 30km ???). I am glad that Tindalos will create new ships (as for the three listed in the OP they literally have too. I didn't know the light cruiser was lore friendly, but am glad it is. As I said in the OP though if anyone knows of additional ships, please post them. Its always good to have a complete list, and most only know what lexicanum will tell them, so this should help.

@archmagos-alexi said in New ships needed and overveiw:

An impressive collection indeed. Although your list does actually point out ow some of these factions may gain more ships with the simple fact that the Astartes Light Cruisers are not listed, because they were only mentioned in the background of several novels until BFG:A(1) brought them to the forefront.

This would indicate that Tindalos is not afraid to bury into the lore to find mention of ship classes, and GW has likely been assisting them with creating various other ship types. Furthermore, as we saw with the Adeptus Astartes in BFG:A(1), they may not stick to the generic fleet formations we saw previously and instead create unique rosters to fit the faction.

Still, the worry is there and until we find out more information about the minor fleets it is a legitimate concern as to what they'll get. Hopefully we get some useful information soon.

I wouldn't worry. They created the Space Marine faction out of an incomplete list, and even the T'au were given a bit of a working over, given how minimal they are on the tabletop.

I think the only possible concern is that the two T'au & two Eldar might play too similar, or that the Dark Eldar will be very limited compared to the others. They did a damn good job with the races in the first game though, so hopefully they'll keep that up for the second.

@romeo Concerning your last point, I'm not too worried about the Craftworld / Corsair Eldar factions, as I think that whilst the vessels will be of a similiar design philosophy when it comes to their speed, agility and defenses, I suspect the two will have very different playstyles.

Thus far Craftworld Eldar have been shown to make use of a playstyle where the majority of their damage is caused by strike craft and pulsars, so perhaps with the dark eldar we will see them armed with different types of weapons that necessitate a different playstyle. Perhaps they will also have increased boarding skills, or maybe even entirely new traits altogether.

Regardless there is room to play with the Dark Eldar. My main concern is the Tau. The issue there is the plain and simple fact that even in the lore, the current tau Fleet is a direct upgrade over the original tau Merchant fleet which was phased out due it's severe inferiority to the factions it encountered.

If they want to try and keep a semi-realistic approach to the 40k universe then I fear that the Merchant Tau fleet may become a "victory through numbers" faction which could leave players in the early game issues whilst they lack vessels.

Otherwise they are going to improve their power, in which case it will be interesting to see where they lead the fleet in order to not create a second weaker Tau faction.

My thoughts have been a bit scattered here so I apologise, currently distracted so not paying full attention.

@archmagos-alexi I understand well what you are saying. The Kor'vatta proper is a joke when it comes to the galaxy's naval powers in both numbers and stats, and the merchant fleet is even worse. As far as I can tell. They will likely have it as less a T'au merchant fleet and more of a "T'au" auxillery fleet, shoving all the other T'au races in here whilst the Kor'vatta gets all the actual T'au ships. So basically the fleet from the last game will be the protector fleet and the kroot and demiurg and nicassar and such will be in this new fleet. At least, that's the best I can figure it. We won't really know until we have WoG confirmation or a new trailer.

@nemesor-xanxas said in New ships needed and overveiw:

@archmagos-alexi I understand well what you are saying. The Kor'vatta proper is a joke when it comes to the galaxy's naval powers in both numbers and stats, and the merchant fleet is even worse. As far as I can tell. They will likely have it as less a T'au merchant fleet and more of a "T'au" auxillery fleet, shoving all the other T'au races in here whilst the Kor'vatta gets all the actual T'au ships. So basically the fleet from the last game will be the protector fleet and the kroot and demiurg and nicassar and such will be in this new fleet. At least, that's the best I can figure it. We won't really know until we have WoG confirmation or a new trailer.

This is what I was thinking. Otherwise having two T'au fleets using very similar designs would be downright stupid. Plus moving the auxiliaries away will also help balance the core T'au: Instead of having slow, long-range glass-cannons protected by short-range brawlers (Demiurg/Kroot), you'll be left with only the slow glass cannons.

Plus the thought of having a Demiurg main ship sounds amazing to me.

@nemesor-xanxas Also you listed the Stronghold Class instead of the Bastion Class in the Battle Cruiser section by mistake, just thought I should point this out~

@archmagos-alexi I thought it was a battle cruiser. I honestly cannot figure out where to place it. It seems decently strong like a heavy cruiser or battle cruiser, but due to its mining nature it seems more heavily armored like a grand or armored cruiser. It seems to ponderous to be a normal cruiser, even a bit slow for a BC, but it seems undergunned for a battleship. Perhaps you could shed some light on the matter?

@nemesor-xanxas said in New ships needed and overveiw:

@archmagos-alexi I thought it was a battle cruiser. I honestly cannot figure out where to place it. It seems decently strong like a heavy cruiser or battle cruiser, but due to its mining nature it seems more heavily armored like a grand or armored cruiser. It seems to ponderous to be a normal cruiser, even a bit slow for a BC, but it seems undergunned for a battleship. Perhaps you could shed some light on the matter?

That wasn't what I meant. On the listing you put down Stronghold Class on both entries by mistake which is what I was pointing towards. But to answer your query:

The Stronghold Class Commerce Vessel is a rough equivalent to a Battleship due to its size, speed and firepower. The main decider is the fact that, whilst the vessel may not quite stand up to traditional Battleships, it stands head and shoulders above the next class down, the Grand Cruisers.

The Bastion Class Commerce Vessel is a bit trickier, being a rough equivalent to a Heavy Cruiser or Grand Cruiser depending on who you are using as the standard from which the classing is based. Going off of your descriptions I would classify it as a Heavy Cruiser, but an argument can be made that the Bastion Class could be considered a Grand Cruiser as it boasts a significant amount of firepower and armour whilst also being rather durable and is in practicality a stronger vessel than the Tau Protector Series vessels. (Tabletop & BFG:A[1])

As an interesting side note, it could be said that the Protector Series of ships as seen in BFG:A[1] could feasibly be up-classed to the Battle Cruiser role and not be out of place, being both excessively large, relatively fast and heavily armed for a cruiser class. This brings up a key point behind naval classification, as different design philosophies birth different styles of vessels within the supposedly same class.

E.g. The Eldar Voidstalker would, if it were run by the Imperial Navy, probably only be classified as a Battlecruiser at best, as Imperial style Grand Cruisers & Battleships mount significantly heavier armaments and considerably heavier armour than found on the Voidstalker. Were it to be equipped with heavier armour though it might clarify for the Fast Battleship classification

As such, I wonder if perhaps a reclassification of vessels would be in order? Because in BFG:A(1) i feel that classifications caused some major issues. Tindalos stuck to the classifications from the original game for the most part and this was all well and good, but when you have massive power disparities between various factions ships in supposedly the same class then an issue exists.

May have to open a separate discussion on this to be honest. Enough from me for now, Ciao~

@archmagos-alexi Thanks friend, I'll take your advice on the matter. As you pointed out, classifying imaginary ships is hard, especially when they have such radically different design. I went for purpose over form because this, but it doesn't really fully fit as the way the Eldar and imperial fleets operate is just so different. Tindalos likely stuck with the classes in TT because not only would setting up a class system for each faction be a huge pain, implementing it would be a nightmare. Note the confusion about just one ship because they called it a commerce vessel above. Now imagine that for 100+ ships over 12 factions. Szarekh knows how anyone would ever memorize it or what they would mean.
"Whats That?"
"A commerce Ship"
"Is it a cruiser , a grand cruiser, heavy cruiser, battle cruiser or Battleship?"
"...Yes"
Balencing ships is going to be awful though. The Eldar will be annihilated by all the new weapons that ignore holofields (they deserve this, remove Eldar) used by the Necrons and some tyranids, and the Tau ships (especially that Gal'leath in the new trailer) are essentially floating garbage cans lore wise. Oh well, at the very least the game should look pretty.

last edited by Nemesor Xanxas

Really want to see Grand Cruisers, Armageddon Class BC, and Apocalypse class Battleship.. A dreadnought improvisation would be nice..

It would also be nice to customize like the ship prow for the IN.. from the old prow to the new prow and so on... make some ships look a bit more venerable/old.

Seriously.. IN needs Apocalypse class with old prow... to make it as the old and rare ship that it is..

Victory class, oberon class too etc..

last edited by Neighbor Kid

@neighbor-kid What is it you mean by Dreadnought improvisation? The only kind of dreadnought in 40k is the ground based mech, so I don't know what It would be doing in gothic. If you mean the real world term, that would refer to a specific kind of battleship with only big guns and lots of them (and also steam propulsion but that's not relevant here). All battleships that are battleships proper (not fleet carriers or battle carriers) fit this classification, so I'm not really sure what you mean. If you meant the kind of ship often termed a dreadnought in other kinds of sci-fi (one huge usually spinal gun such as in ME or in the new star wars movie) than any ship with a nova canon or such weapon, so the Victory or Apocalypse class Battleship for the imperium. They have many more guns than just the Nova cannon though, so perhaps they don't fit if that is what you meant (which it might be given the ships you listed.). Generally though more guns is better than one big gun when it comes to 40K.

@nemesor-xanxas Also, ther eis another Necron Light Cruiser Class apparently called the 'Reaper' Class, apparently very similiar to the Scythe Class but appears to have a blade like appendage underslung on the prow, akin to a ramming pike.

@archmagos-alexi That does exist, but BFG magazine says it’s literally just a Scythe with a Sepulchre, so I didn’t include it as I felt that was more of a load out choice than a separate class. It’s really expensive though, at 350 points it clocks in advance more expensive than a retribution class battleship. Of course they were also messing around with scarab rules so they could easily make it something else.

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